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More great data-crunching from the folks at OK Cupid, this time looking into how men rate women about whom they collectively disagree about their attractiveness. In a nutshell, men don't really like women who they *all* find attractive, but they go nuts for women who some guys think are attractive and others don't. Even the absence of knowledge about what other men think about those women.
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Griffin is about to release a wireless OBD-II interface for the iPhone. In a nutshell, this means that your iPhone can tell you why your car's "check engine" light is on, plus provide all kinds of fun numbers about your driving habits.
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A few years ago, I looked at going to law school. I decided again it, largely because I couldn't see how in the world I could pay for it, working in public interest law. (I have zero interest in practicing corporate law.) I'm glad that I did the math, since it looks like bajillions of other would-be attorneys did not, and are now left a quarter million dollars in debt with no prospect of employment.
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It's official: Tom DeLay will serve at least three years in prison. DeLay blames his accountants and lawyers for misleading him, and said that he has no remorse because he did nothing wrong. (He laundered hundreds of thousands of dollars to illegally funnel money into the coffers of state-level Republican candidates. That is, in fact, wrong.) I would like to see far, far hasher penalties for corrupt state and federal elected officials—thirty years, not three—but at least he didn't get probation.
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If you really want to practice law and plan on staying in Virginia, you need not go to law school. Virginia is one of the four or so states wherein one may study law through a process of clerking for an attorney or “reading the law” under the guidance of one. Then just take and pass the bar and you’re on your way. Its a little more complicated actually but depending on the attorney you work it through, this could even be done in your spare time.
There are a few practitioners locally who have gone through the process who would probably steer you in the right direction if you were truly interested. Frances Coles Sebring is one that comes to mind.
A few folks have suggested that to me over the years, and I have given some thought to it, at least in concept, but my knowledge about the process is pretty minimal. Interesting that Sebring read the law! I’m told that’s pretty uncommon.
I’m told that what’s great about law school is all of the connections that you make. But I’m not looking to get a masters in Great New Friends. I just want to learn all about state and U.S. law. It stands to reason that, with some time and a little practice, one ought to be able to learn it without taking out a new mortgage.
Oy. Most of the people I went to law school posted that article on Facebook. Most of the people I went to law school with are either unemployed, or working at jobs I don’t think I’d ever want to do.
I’m in the same boat too. I’m at the DA’s in my city, but I don’t get paid–I should be soon, but don’t know. I get money from contract work and my (sigh, and yes, I know I’m lucky), parents. And guess what? I got good grades. I was the Editor-in-Chief of the nation’s top ten constitutional law journals. I interned at the Department of Defense. I was published. I’m ridiculously good at bragging. And yet, I can’t find a job that will pay me.
But I think there are two types of people who go to law school: people who are vaguely interested in “the law” and want to go because its law school and people who are generally laughed at as hopelessly naive, who really love their jobs and, gasp, in the longview, law school (short view, no one loves law school. No one. It sucks. A lot.)
And I have to say, I’m one of them. I wouldn’t give this up for anything, knowing everything I know now about how it really is. I don’t wake up every morning full of glee that its 5am and I get to work myself into exhaustion every day, no. But I’ve figured out where I can be that I don’t look at my watch and sigh every hour. Everything I got out of law school was worth it.
I’ll probably be in debt the rest of my life, my life is pretty miserable in many respects, and I don’t give a flying fuck. Worth it. I’m not wandering around like some ray of sunshine–my Unit in particular gets very, very grim and very stressful in many ways! Still, at the end of the day? Worth it.
But, as I channel a certain former contributor to the Jaded JD, if you don’t feel that way after finishing up, you’re in the wrong field anyways. Money is necessary, erasing debt is necessary–but if you went to law school for the investment, to ride out a recession, or anything like that, you’re an idiot.
PS to Waldo: Oh, god, the great thing about law school is most definitely NOT the connections you make. Law school is where all the kids who were picked last in gym class and told one too many times how special they are go to try and validate their lives/make up for that fact. You’ll have a core group of friends, like any other thing, but its pretty much the opposite of a Great New Friends Fest.
OK, all the older lawyers out there can now commence to laugh at how hopelessly naive I am. :)
“…because I couldn’t see how in the world I could pay for it, working in public interest law. (I have zero interest in practicing corporate law.)”
This line brought an instant flashback to The Blues Brothers, when Jake got the band their first paying gig.
Jake: “What kind of music do you play here?”
Bar owner: “Why, we’ve got BOTH kinds. Country AND Western!”
;-)
Waldo, if you’re indeed interested in the law, or any particular area of practice, there are quite affordable options. One myth is that it is imperative to attend law school in the state where you intend to practice. Totally, completely, utterly false.
If cost is an issue, go to the cheapest public law school you can find. There’s lots of them in the south. It would probably require that you move, but it’s a better option than paying the $20k and up that Virginia schools charge.
America has such a target-rich collection of well-off thugs, bullies, con-men, fixers, trust-fund elitists, and corporate criminals making a mess of the American Dream that I often wish I had gone to Lawyer School to gain the hammer. Instead I just send my money to this guy. He is a righteous warrior…paid off his modest Alabama law degree about 100 times over. Getting paid to do what lesser attorneys and comfortable prosecutors fail to do.
That’s the trick for me—I’m not going to move. After all, we just finished building our retirement home. :) So it’s UVA or nothing, and I’m not sure that my odds of getting into UVA are real good anyhow, if history is any guide. Of course, I could theoretically move and get a degree elsewhere, it’s not worth the trade-off to me.
I take your point, though—a law degree is a law degree. The goal is to learn enough to pass the bar, and presumably any accredited law school can provide that education.
Oooh. Waldo. Hate to break it to you, but law school has less in common with the bar exam than you’d think. You can’t pass the bar on the strength of law school alone, for substantive and tactical (test-taking tips eg) reasons.
If you’re just interested in academic, general knowledge, you could buy barbri/kaplan, and listen to those lectures. They’re avaiable online, too. You couldn’t take the bar, b/c you won’t have gone to an accredited law school, but if its merely information you seek and you don’t really care about tacking Esq onto your name…
A cheaper option would be to read the commercial outlines. You can get the barebones blackletter law from that. Gilberts and Emmanuels both are good. Examples and explanations is amazingly good. I used them when I missed classes to catch up and if I was totally lost, to check my work. If you knew of a nice attorney who held onto her hornbooks, personal outlines and commercial outlines, the cheapest thing to do would be to ask her for them in subjects that interest you, and shed probably share what she could.itd at least help you gauge how far you want to take a formal legal education.
Oh, sure, I know a little real-world experience is necessary, and just like the SATs, a little studying about the mechanics of the test is necessary. I’m not looking to be spoon-fed, after all. :)
I could here in Virginia. :) “The law reader program is intended to provide an alternative legal education for people who, although otherwise qualified for admission to law school, are, by reason of various circumstances, unable to take or complete a law school course of study.” It’d take a little doin’—you can’t just study, take the bar, and that’s that—but it’s totally doable. Virginia’s one of a half-dozen states in the nation where you can read the law.
So this I did not really know: law schools are a huge boondoggle? I mean that in the nicest possible way (because what isn’t a boondoggle, after all). But apparently most states require that you attend an accredited law school AND pass the bar exam? It kind of seems like the requirement to attend the school ensures the survival/profits of the schools, when arguably it’s the bar exam that really matters/proves that you know what you’re doing. That article was very interesting. Like eight million of my peers, I considered attending law school, but didn’t do it. Sometimes I wish I had, because I’m old enough that I probably would have gotten a job in the market at that time. (All my contemporaries who went to law school, even non-prestigious ones, got jobs with firms.)
Waldo, I know there are programs/grants/scholarships for people who plan to go into public interest law. I have two friends who seem to have paid (mostly) for law school (at good, expensive, out-of-state law schools) that way, and who went on to do public interest work.
Waldo: Yeah, you could do that. And you might do well–I don’t know how you learn best. But, while law school isn’t a Great Friends Fest, I know I, and most of the people I worked with in law school, really benefited from Socratic madness, and the debate/argument, as well as diversity of backgrounds, that the classroom provides.
Also, I’m not that bright, and I need someone to call me stupid and otherwise traumatize me into doing something like learning the law. I can’t learn it without talking about it. Seriously, I need someone to give me several thousand pages of reading a week and then ask me questions I don’t know the answer to in class, and then spend the class arguing back and forth to really grip the subject.
The may well be true for me, too, Genevieve. It may be that without spending a lot of money, I’ll have no motivation. :) OTOH, maybe the fact that I do so much book learnin’ about law on my own means that I’d forge ahead? I’m not sure. I guess I need to find some way to dip my toe into those waters and find out!
Oh, Genevieve. Dear sweet Genevieve. I’m not even going to say it.
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I suppose it depends on the law school you attend, but goodness, one of the big benefits is certainly how it brings you into certain circles. Don’t believe me? Look at the jobs all those Regent halfwits ended up getting.
While I’m really quite negative about the net benefits of law school, I’m pretty sure that “reading law” really wouldn’t be a great education. Similarly, the mere ability to pass the bar doesn’t mean much, either (esp. in VA, where my only long-lasting impression of what I had to learn to do it was how backwards Virginia seemed to be in its terminology).
All that said (and as I’m coming to the end of paying off an amount of money that was truly stupendous to the pre-law school me), it certainly changed my view on the world, and mostly for the better (I think). In my first or second Civ Pro class, we were assigned a larger reading of this Mark Twain essay – http://grammar.about.com/od/60essays/a/twowaysessay.htm. It’s about learning to read the water on a river, and how – after you’ve done it – you’ll never see the river the same way again. Didn’t think much of that particular prof at the time, but in retrospect, it was a brilliant bit of analogy, and it’s stuck with me to this day.
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Also? The students quoted in the article are mostly idiots for whom I have little sympathy. But that still doesn’t excuse the law schools and their irresponsible behavior.
MB. Oh, MB. Normally, I’d let you laugh at me, ’cause you’re right. But I got assigned to the Homicide Unit of a violent city’s DA’s office. (Proving your point about connections; I’m the first to admit that really? A 2010 law grad got turned loose on Homicide, merely on the strength of her law school internship there? For reals?)
Since passing the bar, I’ve gotten to:
• Go on emergency evening trips to the morgue
• Execute search warrants with the Crime Scene Unit and detectives
• No, really, that was fucking rad. I got to go through part of the place all by myself.
• Be driven home in the Crime Scene van
• Oh, right, prosecute killers, that’s still pretty awesome.
• Go to the Medical Examiner’s Office with Crime Scene and, ahem, get my hands dirty.
(I think I’m just proving your point, though, amirite???
Bad girl, bad girl, whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they . . .
Still, if you’re working for free, that’s fucking appalling. I’m not putting that on you. I’m putting that on a seriously screwed up society that doesn’t even begin to want to face up to the costs of its rhetoric.
(That said, even if you get paid, I still think we’re living in a fucked up society. Thank your lucky stars you’re not in the public defender’s office.)