links for 2010-10-19

Published by Waldo Jaquith

Waldo Jaquith (JAKE-with) is an open government technologist who lives near Char­lottes­­ville, VA, USA. more »

6 replies on “links for 2010-10-19”

  1. The Republican Senate nominee was not aware that the first amendment prohibits government from establishing a religion.

    That’s blatantly not true. Here’s what the WaPo says:

    “Where in the Constitution is separation of church and state?” O’Donnell asked while Democrat Chris Coons, an attorney, sat a few feet away.

    Coons responded that O’Donnell’s question “reveals her fundamental misunderstanding of what our Constitution is. … The First Amendment establishes a separation.”

    She interrupted to say, “The First Amendment does? … So you’re telling me that the separation of church and state, the phrase ‘separation of church and state,’ is in the First Amendment?”

    She very clearly knew what the First Amendment says and was simply pointing out that the phrase “separation of church and state” does not appear in the Constitution, as much as many liberals wish it would.

    The First Amendment states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    The phrase “separation of church and state” is usually traced to President Thomas Jefferson. In a letter in 1802, he referred to the First Amendment and said that it built “a wall of separation between Church & State.”

    The relationship of government and religion continues to be debated in American law. Many argue that the First Amendment’s reference to religion involves the establishment of any particular religion, an important concern to the American colonists, not a ban on all involvement between religion and government.

    I take the interpretation under “Many argue”. While liberals toss around the phrase “separation of church and state” and pretend it’s in the Constitution, it’s not. I’m glad O’Donnell called him on his misrepresentation.

    The clear fact of the matter is that there’s a big difference between a “separation of church and state” and a state religion (“law respecting an establishment of religion”).

    When liberals misrepresent the Constitution, conservatives will call them on it, the Washington Post will report it accurately, and the liberal blogs will misrepresent it. Yay for the Washington Post! :-D

  2. Hans: In which ways would you like to see the “wall of separation” lowered? And remember, if you lower the wall for Christianity, you also must lower it for Islam, paganism, Wiccan-ism(?), whatever.

    So if you allow, for instance, a manger scene in a city park around Christmas, are you for allowing pagans to celebrate the solstice at the same public park? Will followers of radical Islam be allowed to hold their Friday meetings in local elementary schools?

    My take is that conservative Christians want to allow prayer in schools, etc. — as long as it is CHRISTIAN prayer.

  3. We can talk about this age-old debate all day, but my main concern was how you blatantly mischaracterized both the WaPo article and Ms. O’Donnell’s words.

    —-

    To answer your question, I think religion in the public square should match the demographic makeup of the constituents. Thus, in Dearborn, MI, Muslims could come have Friday prayers in schools. I actually think we strike a pretty decent balance ATM between over-involvement (establishment) and unnatural under-involvement. The fight does need to go on, however, to maintain that balance.

    The one place that really makes me sad is the lack of government funding of faith-based social services. If you’re going to spend government money on social services, you might as well spend it on something that works. I have a friend who’s a paramedic in a nearby large city and laments the social services merry go round that doesn’t do a thing to help addicts, mentally ill, poverty-stricken, etc. It’s just a bandaid, not even on the wounds of the underprivileged, but on the conscience of middle-class America. The church is the only one that has been making a difference in these people’s lives, in my experience.

    I’m perfectly content to see the church take on that responsibility like they should have more fully a long time ago and I’m also perfectly content to avoid government funding. But it does pain me to see that money going to waste, primarily because of Jefferson’s idea of “separation of church and state” which some folks have substituted for “establishment of religion”. I wish there was a feasible way for a public-private partnership between the state and churches where there could be accountability, but not control. It’s really an impossible situation. I don’t advocate that the gov start funding the church to do these things, there are too many complications. I’m just thinking out loud here.

    See, I’m Anabaptist and we were the first ones to popularize the idea in Europe during the Reformation (they called us the Radical Reformation) that the church and state didn’t have to be one entity, indeed should not and could not be one entity. So I’m all for keeping the government’s nose out of religion, but when it crosses the line into preventing the free exercise of religion on public lands by public figures when those actions are in line with the demographics of the local populace, that annoys me greatly and is not what the Constitution is saying at all.

  4. What I find truly atrocious is when a country like France bans the free exercise of religion in the public square by private individuals by banning the wearing of any religious symbols.

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