Waldo Jaquith (JAKE-with) is an open government technologist who lives near Charlottesville, VA, USA. more »
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14 replies on “War is peace.”
An unfortunate line standing alone. If only the WAR is not the ANSWER crowd could understand there’s a peace to be had only on the other side of war and try to avoid giving the impression that they’re desperate to surrender to somebody we get there a lot quicker.
Well, that’s the Orwellian trifecta then. He’s already proven that freedom is slavery and ignorance is strength.
I suppose if one lives in a knowledge bubble, or purposely ignores history, then one could believe that peace just springs up out of the ground for all to enjoy.
It is a funny quote all by itself, no doubt about that. That said, I would hope that anyone with a little bit more than a high school education would know that peace, and the terms thereof, is always the result of war.
I suppose the trenches were peaceful places. Once everyone was dead, of course.
Inside my knowledge bubble, it tells me that once we have peace, there should never be a reason for war again. It’s strangling the life out of peace that produces war and unrest.
Peace springs out of the earth itself? No, but the flowers on the dead soldiers graves do.
Be the change that you seek.
Let a thousand flowers bloom, Mark, and then get some help.:)
@JS: What we have here is a cultural conflict. Your life experience (I am guessing, here) tells you that peace is a fragile, unstable situation that can only be enforced by war.
Mark’s experience tells him that peace is natural, but that war is an easy out that many leaders take in lieu of diplomacy or solving underlying problems. (cf. War on Drugs.)
And both of you think that the other is completely cracked.
What we’re talking about here is human nature. Humans will get along until one thinks that he can take advantage of another with no repercussions. When this step is taken in error, then we have conflict.
I’m not saying that war is always the path to peace, but there ain’t going to be peace until nobody thinks they can get away with cheating. Usually the recourse against cheating is conflict and sometimes war.
Judge makes a point. Historically, lasting peace is only secured when somebody gets beaten down to the point where they realize surrender and good behavior are in their best interest.
Tim, it would be a very wonderful thing if peace were the natural state of man. You seem to be smart enough to know that this is unfortunately not the case. History has proved it for many thousands of years.
If, on the other hand, you actually think that peace is natural for mankind, I hope you seek and find a good liberal education.
Peace is desired, but so is power. Throughout human history, men (and societies) have chased power at the expense of peace. Ultimately, and in every instance, peace has only been maintained by the threat of war.
I’d recommend some good books on it, including some on game theory, but I seriously doubt anything I say is going to change a pollyannist’s (probably not a word, but it should be) worldview.
On the topic of war, I’m no pacifist, but I would argue that our current engagement in Iraq is a good counter-point to his statement. Sometimes there can be no peace until there’s war, but not every war is about peace.
And, I think we can all agree that finding a way into peace without war is usually preferable when possible.
I got a whole ‘nother insight from that speech. Bush was a cheerleader for pushing home ownership onto people that really can’t afford to own a home. Like home ownership is the grail instead of economic security.
I encourage everyone to read this thing. It is yet another example of clueless leadership. Another misdemeanor.
The problem is we have what we call a homeownership gap in America. Three-quarters of Anglos own their homes, and yet less than 50 percent of African Americans and Hispanics own homes. That ownership gap signals that something might be wrong in the land of plenty. And we need to do something about it.
People get discouraged by the fine print on the contracts. They take a look and say, well, I’m not so sure I want to sign this. There’s too many words. (Laughter.) There’s too many pitfalls. So one of the things that the Secretary is going to do is he’s going to simplify the closing documents and all the documents that have to deal with homeownership.
Ladies in gentlemen, I give you Mr. Sub-Prime Debacle In-Chief, George W. Bush. Worst President Ever.
Bubby, he wasn’t talking about mortgages. As for sub-primes, the culprit can be found by following the money. And for that, you need look no further than the Democrat who got richer on the backs of families who couldn’t afford the loans he and his business partners peddled — John Edwards.
He was talking about taxpayer subsidy to the real-estate sector…
Finally, we want to make sure the Section 8 homeownership program is fully implemented. This is a program that provides vouchers for first-time home buyers which they can use for down payments and/or mortgage payments.
AND mortgages…
And so, therefore, I’ve called — yesterday, I called upon the private sector to help us and help the home buyers. We need more capital in the private markets for first-time, low-income buyers. And I’m proud to report that Fannie Mae has heard the call and, as I understand, it’s about $440 billion over a period of time.They’ve used their influence to create that much capital available for the type of home buyer we’re talking about here. It’s in their charter; it now needs to be implemented.
Didn’t Abe Lincoln also believe that “a new freedom” could result from a War? Not that Bush is like Lincoln in any way, but it isn’t unreasonable to see peace as a conclusion of war. I’m sure Clinton had the same idea when the US was taking part in bombing runs in Kosovo.
An unfortunate line standing alone. If only the WAR is not the ANSWER crowd could understand there’s a peace to be had only on the other side of war and try to avoid giving the impression that they’re desperate to surrender to somebody we get there a lot quicker.
Well, that’s the Orwellian trifecta then. He’s already proven that freedom is slavery and ignorance is strength.
I suppose if one lives in a knowledge bubble, or purposely ignores history, then one could believe that peace just springs up out of the ground for all to enjoy.
It is a funny quote all by itself, no doubt about that. That said, I would hope that anyone with a little bit more than a high school education would know that peace, and the terms thereof, is always the result of war.
I suppose the trenches were peaceful places. Once everyone was dead, of course.
Inside my knowledge bubble, it tells me that once we have peace, there should never be a reason for war again. It’s strangling the life out of peace that produces war and unrest.
Peace springs out of the earth itself? No, but the flowers on the dead soldiers graves do.
Be the change that you seek.
Let a thousand flowers bloom, Mark, and then get some help.:)
@JS: What we have here is a cultural conflict. Your life experience (I am guessing, here) tells you that peace is a fragile, unstable situation that can only be enforced by war.
Mark’s experience tells him that peace is natural, but that war is an easy out that many leaders take in lieu of diplomacy or solving underlying problems. (cf. War on Drugs.)
And both of you think that the other is completely cracked.
What we’re talking about here is human nature. Humans will get along until one thinks that he can take advantage of another with no repercussions. When this step is taken in error, then we have conflict.
I’m not saying that war is always the path to peace, but there ain’t going to be peace until nobody thinks they can get away with cheating. Usually the recourse against cheating is conflict and sometimes war.
Judge makes a point. Historically, lasting peace is only secured when somebody gets beaten down to the point where they realize surrender and good behavior are in their best interest.
Tim, it would be a very wonderful thing if peace were the natural state of man. You seem to be smart enough to know that this is unfortunately not the case. History has proved it for many thousands of years.
If, on the other hand, you actually think that peace is natural for mankind, I hope you seek and find a good liberal education.
Peace is desired, but so is power. Throughout human history, men (and societies) have chased power at the expense of peace. Ultimately, and in every instance, peace has only been maintained by the threat of war.
I’d recommend some good books on it, including some on game theory, but I seriously doubt anything I say is going to change a pollyannist’s (probably not a word, but it should be) worldview.
Actually, I believe that was Giuliani.
On the topic of war, I’m no pacifist, but I would argue that our current engagement in Iraq is a good counter-point to his statement. Sometimes there can be no peace until there’s war, but not every war is about peace.
And, I think we can all agree that finding a way into peace without war is usually preferable when possible.
I got a whole ‘nother insight from that speech. Bush was a cheerleader for pushing home ownership onto people that really can’t afford to own a home. Like home ownership is the grail instead of economic security.
I encourage everyone to read this thing. It is yet another example of clueless leadership. Another misdemeanor.
Better education, better pay? Nope, simpler contracts…
Ladies in gentlemen, I give you Mr. Sub-Prime Debacle In-Chief, George W. Bush. Worst President Ever.
Bubby, he wasn’t talking about mortgages. As for sub-primes, the culprit can be found by following the money. And for that, you need look no further than the Democrat who got richer on the backs of families who couldn’t afford the loans he and his business partners peddled — John Edwards.
He was talking about taxpayer subsidy to the real-estate sector…
AND mortgages…
Didn’t Abe Lincoln also believe that “a new freedom” could result from a War? Not that Bush is like Lincoln in any way, but it isn’t unreasonable to see peace as a conclusion of war. I’m sure Clinton had the same idea when the US was taking part in bombing runs in Kosovo.