Allen met with a white supremacy group.

1. Waldo:
   Rumor has it James Webb was photographed in a Denny’s!!! and we all know that food chains “troubled” racist past. Is there a connection? I understand James Webb went there, knowing of the chains troubles in not serving Americans of African Heritage.

   Oh, the Shame, the Shame!

   You guys are diving straight for the gutter! Maybe we should ask for James Webb’s medical records and see if he has any Confederate Flag tatoos?

   This is getting a tad bit out of hand, Yes?

2. To make light of a sitting US Senator’s picture (when he was Governor) schmoozing White Supremacists is not funny.

   You say that “you guys” are driving for the gutter; that misses the point that George Allen’s troubles have been brought about by one person: George Allen. If he were a little more interested in taking responsibility for his actions, some of the bleeding could have been stopped.

   It is getting out of hand, yes, when George Allen claims to not see what was wrong with his racist slur, and makes excuses for ten days first, to see if that would work. The CCC is a real group, and they are really racists. George Allen initiated the meeting while he was Governor. The incident may be in the past, but the organization he met with is not.

   The Denny’s incident was not funny, racism is not funny, and your comments are not funny either. I know you can do better than that, Chris.

3. Mark:
   I’d like to know when the political left is going to start getting intellectually honest about this so called racial slur. I specifically put up this post http://www.spankthatdonkey.com/spankthatdonkey2/2006/8/17/macaca-monkey-racial-epithet.html

   to highlight the only people making the connection from macaca to monkey to even the “N” word is Democrats supporting Jim Webb.

   Waldo & I had an exchange on STD along these lines too in my comments section last night.
   http://www.spankthatdonkey.com/spankthatdonkey2/2006/8/28/blogs-united-in-martinsville-fishing-for-macaca.html

   It is grossly unfair for Allen’s offhand remark to be turned into what it has. This is blatant “race baiting”, and no it does nothing for race relations in VA. This is only the Webb Campaigns less than genuine attempt to “shore up his vote” among Virginians with African Heritage, where he got slaughtered by Harris Miller.

   Oh, and speaking of Miller, who Webb attacked with a cartoon that was interpreted by fellow Democrats as “racist” against Jews… I guess that is just to be swept under the rug.

   Furthermore it would seem the Dems have got to dig up, or pray for anything that can cast Allen in an anti-semitic light, so Webb can make up with that community too!!!

4. Chris, the clear difference here is that Denny’s is not an institution established for the purpose of racism. The CCC exists explicitly for the purpose of separating the races. Allen’s meeting with that group is hardly circumstantial — it’s extraordinary. Most elected officials would flee the CCC.

   It would be one thing if Allen — assuming he were a lot older — had addressed the group in the 1950s. The world was different then, and I understand that. But in 1996? It really is quite shocking.

5. Wow. One of the guys in that photo with Allen sent this nasty letter to a blogger:

   Hey Commie:

   Imagine my chagrin when I used a search engine to find commentary about myself, and there was your shallow, dilettante, asshole self, labeling me a “white supremacist.”

   Being the shallow, nigger-loving dilettante that you are, you probably DO consider niggers to be your equal (who am I to question this?): Yet, unlike you and your allies, I have an I.Q. in excess of 130, which grants me the ability to objectively evaluate the Great American Nigro (Africanus Criminalis.)

   The nigro is 11.5 % of the U.S. population, yet he commits in excess of 55% of all felonies (although felonies are UNDER-represented in the nigro community, where observing the law is considered “acting White!”) Moreover, he (or should I say she?)accounts for 48% of all ADC recipients in the U.S. We have spent over $7 TRILLION on “Urban Welfare Spending” since the mid-1960s, (black economists Thomas Sowell & Walter Williams) and the nigro is still as criminal, surly, lazy , violent and stupid as he/she ever was, while his illegitimacy rate is 80% nationwide, and over 90% in the “large urban areas.”

   By the way, those of us who tried to end forced busing in St. Louis did so because it is a colossal waste and nothing more than a symbolic gesture that has seriously deprived every school district in Missouri that doesn’t benefit from a deseg program : It has cost the state of Missouri $3.5 BILLION since 1983, (another $3.5 Billion in Kansas City,) yet, the nigro “scholars” bussed to county schools under deseg “improve less academically than every other category of student in the St. Louis Public Schools,” according to the Federal Court- ordered Lissitz Study.

   Also, you lying asshole, in the 2003-2004 school year, St. Louis spent $11,711 per nigger -idiot in the public schools, yet, half of all students test at the 20th percentile (or lower) on nationally-standardized tests. (If I were Emperor, I would forcibly hand over you and all your commie apologists for nigro under-achievement to White, working-class parents of public school students, and let them have their way with you…)

   Some day, You sanctimonious nigger-lovers will either have to live amongst them (“nothing cures an enthusiasm for integration like a good dose of niggers”) or else defend yourselves against them. My guess is that you are such a cowardly and pusillanimous lot of girly-boys, they will kill fuck, kill and eat you just as they do young White males in every prison system in the U.S. That’s right: When defending this savage and brutish lot, you must also consider their natural ( or should I say UN-natural) enthusiasm for buggery!

   I honestly pray to God that some nigger fucks, kills and eats you and everyone you claim to love!

   Earl P. Holt III
   4029 Shaw Blvd.
   St. Louis, MO
   63110-3621

   P.S. I dare you to print this e-mail verbatim: You know as well as I do that most people know I speak the truth, and you are a liar and whore who takes to heart Lenin’s dictum that “The first duty of the propagandist is to subvert the meaning of words.”

   I’m speechless.

6. It would be one thing if Allen — assuming he were a lot older — had addressed the group in the 1950s. The world was different then, and I understand that. But in 1996? It really is quite shocking.

   And you know a majority of Virginians still voted for him and voted for him twice (once for govenor and then senator). That really has to say something sad about this state. And it isn’t like most of this wasn’t out there and available to become an issue back then either.

7. And one other thing:

   Wow. One of the guys in that photo with Allen sent this nasty letter to a blogger:

   […]

   Earl P. Holt III
   4029 Shaw Blvd.
   St. Louis, MO
   63110-3621

   The Caption in that photo reads: “At CPAC ’96. (L to R) Virginia Gov. George Allen, Citizen’s Informer editor Fred C. Jennings, CofCC CEO Gordon Lee Baum, national CofCC President Tom Dover, and actor Charlton Heston.

   Earl P. Holt, III. as disgusting as his remarks are, wasn’t in that photo. He does however Co-host a radio show (The Right at Night) on WGNU with Gordon Lee Baum who is in that photo.

8. You’re absolutely right. I read his name, scanned the caption, saw his name, and wrote that he’s in the photo. Now that I look back at the caption I can’t imagine what I was thinking. Thanks!

9. But it is OK to associate this email to Allen, even though the author was not in the photo, but in the same country at the time, I guess?

   Meanwhile, Senator Byrd, an Actual Grand Dragon, no a member, Grand Dragon is safely enscounced (I hope I am wrong about that) in the U.S. Senate.

   Imagine that…

   I take it you are going to engage fully in this “race baiting” exercise Waldo?

   Why don’t we all just stick to the issues. Taxes, abortion, gun control, immigration, national defense, the War on Terror, National Energy Debate, Embryonic Research… There is plenty of material out there….

10. But it is OK to associate this email to Allen, even though the author was not in the photo, but in the same country at the time, I guess?

    Of course not. That’s was the point of the exchange that just occurred here.

    Meanwhile, Senator Byrd, an Actual Grand Dragon, no a member, Grand Dragon is safely enscounced (I hope I am wrong about that) in the U.S. Senate.

    You’ve failed to use the past tense there, Chris. Sen. Byrd is no more “an Actual Grand Dragon” than Sen. Allen is “an actual resident of L.A.”

    By way of accuracy, though, Byrd was a mere member of the KKK, not a “Grand Dragon.”

11. Not according to the USA Today, http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-06-20-byrd-memoir_x.htm?csp=34

    and Boston.com,
    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/06/19/klan_days_cloud_byrd_legacy?mode=PF

    excerpt:
    “WASHINGTON — In the early 1940s, a politically ambitious butcher from West Virginia named Bob Byrd recruited 150 of his friends and associates to form a chapter of the Ku Klux Klan. After Byrd had collected the $10 joining fee and a $3 charge for a robe and hood from every applicant, the ”Grand Dragon” for the mid-Atlantic states came down to tiny Crab Orchard, W.Va., to officially organize the chapter.”

    Let’s get back to the real issues facing VA, in Allen vs. Webb, and quit trying to interject race, shall we?

12. I’ve read both of those articles now, Chris, and I don’t see anything that claims he was Grand Dragon. The Post piece (which is the same piece that appears in the Globe) states that the Grand Dragon was the one who officially organized Byrd’s chapter, while the Globe piece mentions that it was that Grand Dragon who started his career. Neither states that Byrd held that position, because he did not.

    Let’s get back to the real issues facing VA, in Allen vs. Webb, and quit trying to interject race, shall we?

    I’m afraid it was Allen who interjected race, Chris, when he deliberately humiliated a boy for the crime of having a different skin color. Now that Allen has admitted to doing so, and apologized, there can be no doubt that’s what happened.

    For that matter, racial difficulties are a very real issue facing Virginia, unfortunately. I wish that they were not.

13. Spank That Donkey wrote:

    But it is OK to associate this email to Allen, even though the author was not in the photo, but in the same country at the time, I guess?

    I’m going to go ahead and point out that the fellow who wrote the email (Earl P. Holt, III.) has a “radio show” with Gordon Lee Baum who Is in the photo.

    This is relevant because both men share the same philosophy with regards to race issues, and both men are members of the “Council of Conservative Citizens”- a white supremacist group. The above email reflects the attitudes and beliefs of that group and it’s members.

14. Edit – The last paragraph of my prievous post should include an additonal sentance and read as follows:

    This is relevant because both men share the same philosophy with regards to race issues, and both men are members of the “Council of Conservative Citizens”- a white supremacist group. The above email reflects the attitudes and beliefs of that group and it’s members. A group George Allen willingly associated himself with for political benefit.

15. I’m reading through the Council of Concerned Citizens website.

    Oh. My. God.

    It is an undisguised, unrepentant white supremacy organization. It’s not like they just have roots in it, or they promote an agenda that would have a racist effect but not a clearly racist intent. It’s just flat-out racist.

    The guys at Stormfront, the leading white supremacy site, are all about the CoCC.

    I cannot fathom why Allen wouldn’t just meet with these guys, but have his picture taken. It’s totally insane.

16. Wow….the Democrats really don’t have any issues to campaign on.

    Keep playing race cards, and keep losing. I’ll laugh while you do.

    You know how many politicians pose for pictures with people simply because they bought a ticket? You guys really shouldn’t be so desperate if you had real confidence in Webb.

17. You know how many politicians pose for pictures with people simply because they bought a ticket?

    The problem here is that’s not what happened at all. Had you read the article in question, you’d know that. As was reported in The Nation:

    Beyond Macaca: The Photograph That Haunts George Allen

    Max Blumenthal

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    This photo, published in the Summer 1996 edition of the Citizens Informer, the newsletter of the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens, shows George Allen, left, and actor Charlton Heston, right, posing with Gordon Lee Baum and two associates.

    Barnstorming around Virginia in the re-election campaign that Republican Senator George Allen hopes will provide the impetus for his 2008 run for the presidency, he has suddenly been forced on the defensive. Time and again, he has felt compelled to explain that his mocking of S.R. Sidarth, a young Indian-American staff member for his Democratic opponent, as “macaca,” or monkey, was an unintentional gaffe. “It was a mistake. I made a mistake,” he told a reporter from a local NBC affiliate at a campaign stop on Thursday. Hours later, he told the ABC affiliate, “It was a mistake, I was wrong.” On Fox News’s Sean Hannity show, he echoed, “It was a mistake.”

    But was it an isolated “mistake”?

    Only a decade ago, as governor of Virginia, Allen personally initiated an association with the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC), the successor organization to the segregationist White Citizens Council and among the largest white supremacist groups.

    In 1996, when Governor Allen entered the Washington Hilton Hotel to attend the Conservative Political Action Conference, an annual gathering of conservative movement organizations, he strode to a booth at the entrance of the exhibition hall festooned with two large Confederate flags–a booth operated by the CCC, at the time a co-sponsor of CPAC. After speaking with CCC founder and former White Citizens Council organizer Gordon Lee Baum and two of his cohorts, Allen suggested that they pose for a photograph with then-National Rifle Association spokesman and actor Charlton Heston. The photo appeared in the Summer 1996 issue of the CCC’s newsletter, the Citizens Informer.

    According to Baum, Allen had not naively stumbled into a chance meeting with unfamiliar people. He knew exactly who and what the CCC was about and, from Baum’s point of view, was engaged in a straightforward political transaction. “It helped us as much as it helped him,” Baum told me. “We got our bona fides.” And so did Allen.

18. Here’s where I am with this: the CCC is obviously racist. Did Allen know it then? If so, that speaks volumes. If not, when did he find out about it, and has he ever disavowed the group?

19. Did Allen know it then? If so, that speaks volumes. If not, when did he find out about it, and has he ever disavowed the group?

    Those really are the important questions.

    How interesting that, when his spokesman got back to The Nation, there was no condemnation of the CoCC. It’s my forecast that he’ll never condemn them or their views, because he needs their vote.

    I hope to be proven wrong.

20. I read it with a pillar of salt, because…c’mon, it’s The Nation.

    It was a picture!

    The clearer picture is that Democrats keep beating the old race-baiting drum. All I read after the primary was how Webb didn’t fare well in minority communities. Guess we’re now seeing their solution.

21. I read it with a pillar of salt, because…c’mon, it’s The Nation.

    I’m confused. Are you accusing The Nation of lying when they say that they talked to White Citizens Council organizer Gordon Lee Baum, featured in the photograph? Do you think that Baum didn’t really say that Allen was quite familiar with their organization and its mission? Did they make up the quotes from him?

    This sounds like a very serious accusation. I look forward to reading more about this. I assume you’ll be writing more about it on your own blog? It could be an extremely big story, catching a publication in the act of faking a story like this. Max Blumenthal could be the next Jayson Blair, and you’d be the one to nail him.

22. When I re-read this thread, it sounds like a lot of whining from the GOP participants, followed by justification, rationalization and an attempt at humor.

    It is very telling that other than downplaying or excusing this behavior, the people who comment as I mention in the last paragraph have no facts to bring to bear on this subject.

    Only excuses.

    Oh, and hi HR, nice to see you made it over here safely from RK. With all the fear and terror around, one can never be too careful.

23. Why is it that the right-wingers suddenly want to talk about “the issues?” Character is an issue–remember “character counts?” Allen is a sitting U.S. Senator and a would-be president; the content of his character is extremely important.

    It seems as if Allen’s tenuous relationship with this hateful group was not just a one-time thing. No smoke without fire, as they say. I believe this calls for further investigation.

24. I love your leaps. If you don’t read critically, enjoy the naive life.

    A picture with a politician means so much, huh? You know how many pictures I’ve had taken with me and politicians who don’t even agree with each other? By this silly theory of yours, they all agree with my politics, and by definition with each other, because they were all in pictures with me.

    I’m sure there’s a picture somewhere of George Allen and Jim Webb together. Webb’s got a lot of explaining to do if that pops up.

25. I love your leaps. If you don’t read critically, enjoy the naive life.

    I still don’t understand. Are you or are you not accusing The Nation of inventing that exchange with White Citizens Council organizer Gordon Lee Baum, the man photographed with Sen. Allen?

26. Sorry you lack understanding.

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