Waldo Jaquith

So the rapture poll says that Obama does well with the godless? That’s no suprise but my money would be on the anti-christ, unless of course he’s already… ;)

Posted by perlogik on 31 May 2011 @ 10am

The cross tab isn’t for people who believe in God, it’s people who believe in God and also believe that God will eminently return to whisk them away to heaven because they’re so much better than everyone else.

So it’s not so much that Barack Obama does well with the Godless as much as he doesn’t do quite as well with the insufferably self-righteous.

Posted by Sam on 31 May 2011 @ 12pm

So Waldo, you’re advocating the Pete Rose theory of education (Rose being perhaps the least talented great player ever, but he always tried hard and got the most out of what he had)?

Posted by Steve Vaughan on 31 May 2011 @ 2pm

Re: kids & praise…. You mean you were in the former group?

Posted by I. Publius on 1 June 2011 @ 11pm

BTW, that rapture poll is interesting.

Put another way, it essentially says that if every Christian were taken to heaven next week, Obama would do very, very well in 2012.

Posted by I. Publius on 1 June 2011 @ 11pm

If every dim, ignorant, uninformed, fear-based, and bigoted American was taken to their reward next week Obama would surely do very, very well in 2012. You can interpolate that with the “Christians” taking the make-believe lift to Heavenland. There may be a connection.

Posted by Bubby Hussein, Hillbilly Sheikh on 2 June 2011 @ 8am

Well, Bub, all Christians (by definition) believe that they will one day be in heaven with their Creator. You can interpolate that with “dim, ignorant, uninformed, fear-based, and bigoted” if that floats your boat.

A growing number of liberals, ummm, I mean progressives have been defining Christians in such a manner for quite some time. Most of them just don’t do it openly… yet.

Posted by I. Publius on 2 June 2011 @ 9am

“Well, Bub, all Christians (by definition) believe that they will one day be in heaven with their Creator.”

coughcoughCalvinism.

Posted by Sam on 2 June 2011 @ 11am

Calvinism indeed Sam! I.Publius, I wonder why “christians” are so often defined as ignorant?

Posted by Bubby Hussein, Hillbilly Sheikh on 2 June 2011 @ 2pm

Post-modern, politically correct christianism runs deep, apparently. Wow.

Posted by I. Publius on 2 June 2011 @ 2pm

Calvinism is post-modern? It dates back to the 16th century.

Posted by Sam on 2 June 2011 @ 2pm

In a religion with as many sects as Christianity, it would be surprising indeed if you couldn’t find one sect that didn’t believe in any particular teaching. The whole “Rapture” thing is much more prominent in Protestant churches over the last 30 years or so. I grew up Southern Baptist (back when you could still have a beer at the church picnic) and don’t remember hearing the term “The Rapture” until many years later.

Posted by Steve Vaughan on 2 June 2011 @ 3pm

No one ever concerned themselves with the idea of Rapture at any of the churches I’ve attended (all Episcopalian). While one of the central tenets of the religion adopted by the First Ecumenical Council and enshrined in the Nicene Creed asserts that “He will come again to judge the quick and the dead,” no where does it say that you’re required to believe that Paul was 100% accurate in either his understanding or his description of the process when writing to the people of Thessaloniki.

Particularly since it’s not actually supported by Revelation.

Posted by Sam on 2 June 2011 @ 4pm

Years ago I had a conversation with a Baptist minister about this Rapture thing. He was old school, with an actual education from their version of a seminary. He left the ministry over the Rapture nonsense, his congregation didn’t like being told their belief was based on ignorance. He found no support from the larger denomination.

Posted by Bubby Hussein, Hillbilly Sheikh on 2 June 2011 @ 5pm

In all seriousness, and setting the dogma of various denominations of Christianity aside, I’d be interested in knowing what the intersect is between those who profess to having accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, those who believed that man is judged at death (and if worthy, “go to a better place”), and those who really truly believe in End of Days/Rapture. I wouldn’t be surprised if the last group were less than 50% of the first.

Posted by Kaveh on 2 June 2011 @ 8pm

No,Sam… it’s the liberal fluff theology prevalent today that is post-modern. The same theology that has led you to believe that Calvinism disavows any Rapture of any sort whatsoever. That’s simply ignorant.

Posted by I. Publius on 2 June 2011 @ 9pm

I wasn’t saying that it disavows rapture, silly goose. I was saying that the Calvinist constellation of theology presupposes that because all human beings are by their nature incapable of loving God with their whole hearts, and because God has unconditionally decided from eternity who shall be saved and who won’t, and because He has already enacted that salvation through Jesus Christ’s limited atonement, it’s entirely possible and indeed likely that not all Christians will go to Heaven, regardless of the method by which they’ll arrive. So an honest Calvinist may say they hope they’ll be counted among the elect, but he can’t honestly assert that it will happen with any certitude.

Posted by Sam on 2 June 2011 @ 11pm

caugh-samwins-caugh

Posted by Chris on 3 June 2011 @ 12am

Did you actually type — intentionally?!?! — that a Calvinist believes that not all Christians will go to heaven? I weep for your theological upbringing.

Son, you’re correct that Calvinism teaches that God has already chosen the elect. We mere children can do nothing to effect our salvation. Only God can do that. He chooses; we go (or not).

That necessarily means that God has chosen who will (and will not) become a Christian. To be a Christian *necessarily* means that one will be saved. If you don’t learn anything else from our encounter, please take that much to heart.

Posted by I. Publius on 7 June 2011 @ 10pm

By the way, I love how someone who writes “caugh” (twice, no less) declares a winner.

Relishing the irony.

Posted by I. Publius on 7 June 2011 @ 10pm

typographical spelling or grammatical errors don’t exactly rise to the level of content analysis – my apologies for the atrocious spelling

Posted by Chris on 7 June 2011 @ 11pm

Perhaps, Chris. But typos of the sort that a 5th grader would be ashamed of are sufficient to cast doubt on someone’s ability to analyze content. In other words, anyone who can’t spell 5th grade words isn’t qualified to pass normative evaluations on something like Calvinist theology.

Posted by I. Publius on 10 June 2011 @ 10pm

wow – we’re quite worked up about a snarky comment on a blog, aren’t we?

Posted by Chris on 10 June 2011 @ 11pm

“anyone who can’t spell 5th grade words isn’t qualified to pass normative evaluations on something like Calvinist theology.”

I expect that going forward we will see this standard consistently applied to anyone espousing principles and positions that I.Pub agrees with as well as those he/she’s arguing with.

Posted by Claire on 12 June 2011 @ 10am