My earlier comment was simply an observation based on the fact that as much as I’d like it to be true, I’m not right about everything all the time. And when I was a boy, I called people sir or ma’am–and I still do, thanks Mom–but I was also taught that authority is as much something that is given at least as much as it is asserted (Jefferson called it “the consent of the governed”) and so while I was always respectful, I also frequently questioned authority when I was young. Now that I’m older and considered something of an authority myself, I hope to God that teenagers are still questioning us, at least on matters bigger than seatbelts and vegetables. If anything, it at least keeps me honest.

(And that’s my biggest complaint about the topic of the post, people who cede their authority over their children to a higher power are simultaneously teaching kids that they have to always be deferential to a legislature while not having to respect their parents’ desire to keep them safe).

You say that as if it’s only one or the other. I assure you that it’s possible to instill both.

I’m a little bit closer to Jeff’s line of thinking than I.Pub’s, although I respect both. I think it’s important to make sure children know the fine line between being respectful towards authority–and all other people, for that matter–and being unduly deferential towards authority and not feeling free to think for oneself. But I have to say that anyone whose children use the words “sir” or “ma’am” is doing a better job than most of the breeders out there.

Though individual flouting of authority may have negative consequences on a small scale, I consider excessive deference to authority on population-sized scales to be a far more troubling phenomenon.

The first “big” word my kids ever learned was “consequences.” All the credit must go to my wife, who, with the patience of Job, homeschooled them through early elementary. Good choices have always led to very good consequences. Bad choices, which most often means defying mom or dad, lead to bad consequences.

I realize this is purely anecdotal, but we’ve had excellent results. They are respectful to young and old; say yes ma’am and yes sir to their teachers as well as the garbage collector; and the one in high school has a 4.9 gpa (4.0 scale) in a math-science magnet school.

…and if I tell them to wear their bike helmet, they say “yes, sir” and then they put it on — because they respect not only the law, but also their parents.

(No Skinner off your back, I assure you!)

[grin]

Young children can’t possibly understand the many reasons for all the things that they must do, or not do, which they may find uncomfortable. Any parent who can’t instill a sense of respect and authority in their child — to the point where the parent will be *instantly* obeyed, no matter what, or else there will be consequences — is doing their child a disservice, and is most likely raising a brat. Obviously, the parent will not *always* be instantly obeyed. When that happens, there must be negative consequences. That is the most important part, and the part that lazy parents choose to skip, probably because following through on the negative consequences is nearly always inconvenient for the parent.

Sorry for the rant. It’s jus so effing sad to stand back and watch the continued decline in parenting.

Kudos to you, Jackson. My wife and I have used those same sorts of tactics (IOW — told them the truth), and it’s never a bad idea. Kids are smarter than we usually give them credit for.

Jackson may be a little bit more of a straight-talker when it comes to his 4yo than I would be, but I think it’s important to let your child know that you’re trying to keep him safe because you love him, you don’t want him to get hurt, and he therefore must follow your rules.

I whole-heartedly agree that mainstream republicanism has abandoned any material interest in libertarianism. (Not that the Democratic party has especially embraced it, mind you.)

Fiscal restraint, civil and human rights, privacy concerns…all have fallen by the wayside, save for occasional tartings up and trottings out during empty-rhetoric exercises.

And so I’ve completely parted ways with the Republican party….

We have no arguments over seatbelts with Ida any more. She is a convert.