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	<title>Comments on: Legislation sniping.</title>
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	<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 17:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: SBE</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19720</link>
		<dc:creator>SBE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 02:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19720</guid>
		<description>I'd humbly suggest that Del. Cline is scooching around the issue.

My bet on what drives the real answers to Q2:  2009.

Del. Cline didn't going to combine his bill with Del. Valentine's (and then support it) because that might give Del. Valentine a win.  Del. Valentine will have a challenger in 2009, and it will be a targeted race if that challenger is halfway decent.  Leaving the inimitable Del. Valentine alone was among the key strategic failures of the House Republican Caucus in 2007: they spent the 2007 session going out of their way to make her life difficult, and then didn't follow up it up with a challenger.  Sadly, I don't think they'll make that mistake again in 2009.

So: crass politics beats good policy and rational legislative process, in this and many other instances.

The House GOP has shown its colors this session - from the opening bell they've governed the House with little regard for open government or good policy, cynically trusting that the voters won't notice and the politics will work out.  (For examples, see: EVERY SINGLE open government rule and bill, committee rules, subcommittee membership, and not least, the latest kerfuffle re: Del. Ebbin's bill).

I think their heavy-handedness, combined with the incredible skill of terrific legislators like Del. Valentine (just for example) will make 2009 a great year for Democratic House candidates.  But either way, I'm positive a full an honest answer from Del. Cline on this questions would include 2009.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d humbly suggest that Del. Cline is scooching around the issue.</p>
<p>My bet on what drives the real answers to Q2:  2009.</p>
<p>Del. Cline didn&#8217;t going to combine his bill with Del. Valentine&#8217;s (and then support it) because that might give Del. Valentine a win.  Del. Valentine will have a challenger in 2009, and it will be a targeted race if that challenger is halfway decent.  Leaving the inimitable Del. Valentine alone was among the key strategic failures of the House Republican Caucus in 2007: they spent the 2007 session going out of their way to make her life difficult, and then didn&#8217;t follow up it up with a challenger.  Sadly, I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;ll make that mistake again in 2009.</p>
<p>So: crass politics beats good policy and rational legislative process, in this and many other instances.</p>
<p>The House GOP has shown its colors this session - from the opening bell they&#8217;ve governed the House with little regard for open government or good policy, cynically trusting that the voters won&#8217;t notice and the politics will work out.  (For examples, see: EVERY SINGLE open government rule and bill, committee rules, subcommittee membership, and not least, the latest kerfuffle re: Del. Ebbin&#8217;s bill).</p>
<p>I think their heavy-handedness, combined with the incredible skill of terrific legislators like Del. Valentine (just for example) will make 2009 a great year for Democratic House candidates.  But either way, I&#8217;m positive a full an honest answer from Del. Cline on this questions would include 2009.</p>
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		<title>By: va displaced</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19715</link>
		<dc:creator>va displaced</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 03:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19715</guid>
		<description>Del. Cline, I share Waldo's sentiments regarding your willingness to answer questions regarding this directly, especially since so many of us really do not have much insight into the actual legislative process nitty-gritty.

That said, forgive me for being obtuse but I'm not sure that your answer above to Q2 actually clarifies things.  OK, so the bill was "important to [your] district".  Thus, Del. Valentine's bill was "important to [your] district".  Honestly, the only reason I can see for you to introduce a copy of a bill that was already in subcommittee is for you to take credit for it later.

If her bill was the same as the one you later introduced, how does hers not help your district, but yours does (if that was your prime concern)?  And if it's just a matter of her having the time to file before you because of other priorities on your part (which I fully understand), then she should just get credit for the bill even moreso because of her commitment to the process and the "legislator" part of the citizen legislator.

Early bird gets the worm, and all that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Del. Cline, I share Waldo&#8217;s sentiments regarding your willingness to answer questions regarding this directly, especially since so many of us really do not have much insight into the actual legislative process nitty-gritty.</p>
<p>That said, forgive me for being obtuse but I&#8217;m not sure that your answer above to Q2 actually clarifies things.  OK, so the bill was &#8220;important to [your] district&#8221;.  Thus, Del. Valentine&#8217;s bill was &#8220;important to [your] district&#8221;.  Honestly, the only reason I can see for you to introduce a copy of a bill that was already in subcommittee is for you to take credit for it later.</p>
<p>If her bill was the same as the one you later introduced, how does hers not help your district, but yours does (if that was your prime concern)?  And if it&#8217;s just a matter of her having the time to file before you because of other priorities on your part (which I fully understand), then she should just get credit for the bill even moreso because of her commitment to the process and the &#8220;legislator&#8221; part of the citizen legislator.</p>
<p>Early bird gets the worm, and all that.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Cline</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19713</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Cline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 23:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19713</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I'll try again:

Q: Why did you wait until after Valentine’s bill had appeared to file your own? 

A: I wasn't waiting for her - I always introduce my bills within a few days of the filing deadline at the start of each session (confirmable on the House website for any disbelievers).

I wait until the last minute because I am working (or was taking law finals) in December and don't start finalizing my legislative package until the holidays.  I squeeze every minute out of those two weeks between Christmas and the start of session (and I applaud Shannon for being ready earlier).


Q2: Or, more to the point, why’d you file your own rather than supporting hers?

A: Shannon and I work together on lots of issues, but this one was important to my district.  Central Virginia Training Center is a state facility for the mentally disabled in Amherst County that is facing a significant shortage of nurses.  This bill would have allowed retired state nurses to return to the workforce without losing their benefits.  So while I also supported Shannon's bill, I introduced the bill to help my district.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I&#8217;ll try again:</p>
<p>Q: Why did you wait until after Valentine’s bill had appeared to file your own? </p>
<p>A: I wasn&#8217;t waiting for her - I always introduce my bills within a few days of the filing deadline at the start of each session (confirmable on the House website for any disbelievers).</p>
<p>I wait until the last minute because I am working (or was taking law finals) in December and don&#8217;t start finalizing my legislative package until the holidays.  I squeeze every minute out of those two weeks between Christmas and the start of session (and I applaud Shannon for being ready earlier).</p>
<p>Q2: Or, more to the point, why’d you file your own rather than supporting hers?</p>
<p>A: Shannon and I work together on lots of issues, but this one was important to my district.  Central Virginia Training Center is a state facility for the mentally disabled in Amherst County that is facing a significant shortage of nurses.  This bill would have allowed retired state nurses to return to the workforce without losing their benefits.  So while I also supported Shannon&#8217;s bill, I introduced the bill to help my district.</p>
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		<title>By: Waldo Jaquith</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19712</link>
		<dc:creator>Waldo Jaquith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19712</guid>
		<description>Del. Cline, I appreciate your willingness to engage in some give-and-take in what is surely a more hostile audience than you would prefer. Very few legislators choose to subject themselves to such things. That said, I have to ask: If Nell's question is a good one, why not answer it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Del. Cline, I appreciate your willingness to engage in some give-and-take in what is surely a more hostile audience than you would prefer. Very few legislators choose to subject themselves to such things. That said, I have to ask: If Nell&#8217;s question is a good one, why not answer it?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Cline</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19711</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Cline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19711</guid>
		<description>Good question.  The drafting and introduction of legislation should be a deliberative process and not a race between members.  I am always happy to work with Shannon on common areas of interest.  As Reagan once said, it's amazing how much one can accomplish when no one cares who gets the credit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good question.  The drafting and introduction of legislation should be a deliberative process and not a race between members.  I am always happy to work with Shannon on common areas of interest.  As Reagan once said, it&#8217;s amazing how much one can accomplish when no one cares who gets the credit.</p>
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		<title>By: Nell</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19710</link>
		<dc:creator>Nell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19710</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this excellent catch, Waldo, and for your work on Richmond Sunlight generally.

And thanks to the commenters, including Ben Cline.  Ball's in your court, Del. Cline: why did you wait until after Valentine's bill had appeared to file your own?  Or, more to the point, why'd you file your own rather than supporting hers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this excellent catch, Waldo, and for your work on Richmond Sunlight generally.</p>
<p>And thanks to the commenters, including Ben Cline.  Ball&#8217;s in your court, Del. Cline: why did you wait until after Valentine&#8217;s bill had appeared to file your own?  Or, more to the point, why&#8217;d you file your own rather than supporting hers?</p>
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		<title>By: KCinDC</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19709</link>
		<dc:creator>KCinDC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 04:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19709</guid>
		<description>Sounds like someone was following in the footsteps of &lt;a href="http://www.raisingkaine.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4286" rel="nofollow"&gt;George Allen&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like someone was following in the footsteps of <a href="http://www.raisingkaine.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4286" rel="nofollow">George Allen</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19708</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19708</guid>
		<description>One of the issues here that no one is talking about is the sheer number of bills being dropped and how slow LIS is to post them even after they have survived drafting.

Maybe the GA should seek to use the first days of the Assembly consolidating these xerox bills and reduce the number of bills filed from 3000 to 1500.  Take out the commendation resolutions and you have even fewer bills to wade through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the issues here that no one is talking about is the sheer number of bills being dropped and how slow LIS is to post them even after they have survived drafting.</p>
<p>Maybe the GA should seek to use the first days of the Assembly consolidating these xerox bills and reduce the number of bills filed from 3000 to 1500.  Take out the commendation resolutions and you have even fewer bills to wade through.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19707</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19707</guid>
		<description>I don't know Del Cline or Del Valentine well enough to comment so energetically on their qualities as delegates.  But I do want to make one observation about the logistics of the event in question that rubs me the wrong way:

If a single attorney received two identical drafting requests from two different legislators, even if he received the second request a week later while he was in the middle of writing the bill in response to the first request, he would still presumably be able to deliver identical copies of the proposed legislation to both lawmakers in the same window of time.  If he had already written one bill matching the specifications required by the second lawmaker, turn around time for the second copy would be much faster than the first--basically the only thing he has to change is the patron name.

So it begs the question why about 20 days elapsed between the submission of Valentine's bill and Cline's.  Del. Cline asserts that the only difference is that Shannon pre-filed while he opted to sit on his bill for the better part of a month, denying other legislators an opportunity to have more time to read it over.  The other plausible scenario is that Del. Cline submitted his request substantially later than Del. Valentine--perhaps after Valentine had already prefiled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know Del Cline or Del Valentine well enough to comment so energetically on their qualities as delegates.  But I do want to make one observation about the logistics of the event in question that rubs me the wrong way:</p>
<p>If a single attorney received two identical drafting requests from two different legislators, even if he received the second request a week later while he was in the middle of writing the bill in response to the first request, he would still presumably be able to deliver identical copies of the proposed legislation to both lawmakers in the same window of time.  If he had already written one bill matching the specifications required by the second lawmaker, turn around time for the second copy would be much faster than the first&#8211;basically the only thing he has to change is the patron name.</p>
<p>So it begs the question why about 20 days elapsed between the submission of Valentine&#8217;s bill and Cline&#8217;s.  Del. Cline asserts that the only difference is that Shannon pre-filed while he opted to sit on his bill for the better part of a month, denying other legislators an opportunity to have more time to read it over.  The other plausible scenario is that Del. Cline submitted his request substantially later than Del. Valentine&#8211;perhaps after Valentine had already prefiled.</p>
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		<title>By: martha</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19706</link>
		<dc:creator>martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19706</guid>
		<description>Shannon learned a lot from last year and was surprised at what happened w/ her bill. Shannon works very hard. I have no idea if Cline does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shannon learned a lot from last year and was surprised at what happened w/ her bill. Shannon works very hard. I have no idea if Cline does.</p>
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		<title>By: Flateartha Kitt</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19705</link>
		<dc:creator>Flateartha Kitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 02:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19705</guid>
		<description>If you believe Cline--who introduced his bill nearly 3 weeks later-- after Valentine's bill had been printed, circulated  and assigned to committee, then you'll believe in the Easter Bunny. 

Watch his nose grow each time he tells that tale!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you believe Cline&#8211;who introduced his bill nearly 3 weeks later&#8211; after Valentine&#8217;s bill had been printed, circulated  and assigned to committee, then you&#8217;ll believe in the Easter Bunny. </p>
<p>Watch his nose grow each time he tells that tale!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Cline</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19704</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Cline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19704</guid>
		<description>David is correct.  Shannon and I attended the same Nurses' Association meeting last year where the idea for the bill was discussed.  Both of us put in similar drafting requests, and the same attorney was assigned to put the concept into bill form.  Shannon simply introduced her bill sooner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David is correct.  Shannon and I attended the same Nurses&#8217; Association meeting last year where the idea for the bill was discussed.  Both of us put in similar drafting requests, and the same attorney was assigned to put the concept into bill form.  Shannon simply introduced her bill sooner.</p>
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		<title>By: David Poole</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19702</link>
		<dc:creator>David Poole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19702</guid>
		<description>I don't know what happened in the situation you described, but I think there's a pretty logical explanation for identical bills. First, you have to remember that most legislators do not draft their own legislation. That task is handled by the Division of Legislative Services. 

Typically, a legislator who comes up with an idea will contact the DLS, which will assign a staff attorney with expertise in the subject area. Put yourself in the position of the staff attorney. Legislator A calls and describes what he'd like to accomplish. You do the research, write up the bill and send the legislator a draft. Later, Legislator B calls and describes a very similar idea. There's no need to do more research and start from scratch, so you simply send legislator B the same identical draft.

It is not surprising that there are a number of bills that are identical -- word for word.

How two legislators come up the same idea is another question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know what happened in the situation you described, but I think there&#8217;s a pretty logical explanation for identical bills. First, you have to remember that most legislators do not draft their own legislation. That task is handled by the Division of Legislative Services. </p>
<p>Typically, a legislator who comes up with an idea will contact the DLS, which will assign a staff attorney with expertise in the subject area. Put yourself in the position of the staff attorney. Legislator A calls and describes what he&#8217;d like to accomplish. You do the research, write up the bill and send the legislator a draft. Later, Legislator B calls and describes a very similar idea. There&#8217;s no need to do more research and start from scratch, so you simply send legislator B the same identical draft.</p>
<p>It is not surprising that there are a number of bills that are identical &#8212; word for word.</p>
<p>How two legislators come up the same idea is another question.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Kachur</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19701</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Kachur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19701</guid>
		<description>Well, even if there is a totally reasonable explanation, if you, being uber-informed compared to the average voter, don't get it, then perhaps there's something wrong with the system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, even if there is a totally reasonable explanation, if you, being uber-informed compared to the average voter, don&#8217;t get it, then perhaps there&#8217;s something wrong with the system.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Gross</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19700</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Gross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2008/01/legislation-sniping/#comment-19700</guid>
		<description>* House Bill Count: 1,849
    * Senate Bill Count: 928

please let everyone when you find out why the dups...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>* House Bill Count: 1,849<br />
    * Senate Bill Count: 928</p>
<p>please let everyone when you find out why the dups&#8230;</p>
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