You know, I think O’Reilly is all too familiar with racism in America and plays to it very effectively. In our own town we have had restaurants enact dress codes clearly designed to keep their patronage as white as possible and there was even a rumor of a new restaurant that told a few African Americans that they didn’t serve blacks. (Since it’s unconfirmed I won’t name the restaurant.) The reality is we live in a racist country and O’Reilly is just more open about it than most racists.

Posted by Alison Hymes on 23 September 02007 @ 12pm

We would all be better off we ignored anything said by Bill O’Reilly. However, I want to take this opportunity to recommend Sylvia’s Kicking Hot Sauce, and her greens seasoning will turn plain turnip leaf into the food of the Gods.

Posted by Bubby on 23 September 02007 @ 1pm

O’Reilly’s comments are bizarre. I’m not trying to defend him, but this tired, blanket depiction of America as a racist country flies in the face of reality. I can’t think of another country whose people have done so much for a racial/ethnic minority as America has for blacks.

The fact that the “civil rights” movement has been reduced largely to race hustlers bitching about thug-worshipping teenage boys not being allowed into restaurants with their pants around knees speaks volumes.

Posted by Judge Smails on 23 September 02007 @ 1pm

Notice that no one said anything about America being a racist country, but Smails is quick to the defense! All those ungrateful black people!

Not defensive at allll.

Posted by MB on 23 September 02007 @ 3pm

You might need to go up a level of thickness on yer readin’ glasses, MB.

Posted by Judge Smails on 23 September 02007 @ 3pm

I’ll do that if you can promise us improved reading comprehension on your part. I’ll go ahead and acknowledge that I didn’t catch the very last sentence on Alison’s comment. In any event, I’ll say that America is, indeed, a country full of racists. As a card-carrying member of the GOP, I expect you’re pretty familiar with that fact.

But really, since you’re around here, please do explain something that I’ve never understood – what’s up with reliable defense-by-offense that gets thrown out by white folks whenever race comes up? Even in the most ridiculous situations (like the one above), there’s never a “huh, that sucks.” At best, it’s a “Huh, that’s strange, but black people really should [something.]” It’s always flipped around (“thug-worshipping teenaged boys”?).

Posted by MB on 23 September 02007 @ 3pm

Smails, to say that America is not as racist as 1960, or 1860, is not the same as to say that this country isn’t rife with racism. If you take off your rose-colored glasses then you’ll see it clear as day.

Posted by Dan Kachur on 23 September 02007 @ 5pm

The US is absolutely a racist country…but then so are a lot of other countries. Overall, while far from perfect, the US has actually done amazingly well at absorbing and shifting to accommodate a very large variety of ethnic groups. Admittedly, we’re still right smack in the middle of sorting through all of the baggage that slavery and Jim Crow left behind. I think that will continue to be a process that moves far too slowly to satisfy most of us.

That being said, I’m having a hard time figuring out what it is that Smails thinks that the US has done for Black people. What are all of these wonderful things that America has done for Blacks?

Posted by Katey on 23 September 02007 @ 6pm

Don’t worry about it, Magoo. Everybody makes mistakes.

Dealing with a crowd of people so desperate to find fault with their own country, I doubt there’s anything I could say to dissuade you all from the idea that America is a wicked country bent on the subjugation of people of color, etc., etc., etc.

Posted by Judge Smails on 23 September 02007 @ 8pm

Oh, no. You don’t get to do that. Answer the questions.

Posted by MB on 23 September 02007 @ 8pm

“O’Reilly’s comments are bizarre. I’m not trying to defend him, but this tired, blanket depiction of America as a racist country flies in the face of reality. I can’t think of another country whose people have done so much for a racial/ethnic minority as America has for blacks.”

Excuse me Judge Smails but what exactly has America “done” for all blacks that was an act of generosity rather than something that was due. Throughout the civil rights movement blacks were only demanding the same rights and opportunities that were afforded to their fellow white citizens. I think it’s a little unfair for you to act like treating blacks as equal citizens is something that warrants putting America on a peddle stool or giving it admiration and praise(as it is implied in your comment). Treating blacks as humans should be expected. Also, before you go talking about welfare and affirmative action please be aware that a huge share of the black population never benefits from either. Few blacks go to college and an even lower amount apply to schools with a large enough applicant pool to use affirmative action (or they live in California, Washington, Texas, Florida, or Michigan where it isn’t used). I know you didn’t mention welfare or AA but I just want to preempt that argument before it is even thought about.

Posted by UVA08 on 23 September 02007 @ 10pm

“The fact that the “civil rights” movement has been reduced largely to race hustlers bitching about thug-worshipping teenage boys not being allowed into restaurants with their pants around knees speaks volumes.”

I forgot a couple of points JS. First, I think it speaks loads that to you put quotations around civil rights movement as if to convey that it isn’t a reality in in American anymore. While I agree that the Jaberwoke protest was ridiculous I can’t go along with your assertion that all people who dress a certain way are “thug-worshipping teenage boys.” It is a dress style that I personally don’t ascribe to or want any of my younger siblings mirroring (one main reason being there are people that will make automatic assumptions about them based on it, making things that much harder for them) but I’m not going to sit here and make generalizations. There is a group of people who wear these clothes who do exhibit the qualities that you mentioned but their clothes aren’t what cause their actions. One can follow your lines of reasoning and say that all Republicans are racist jerks. I mean there is a sizable population within your party that fits this mold (otherwise the Southern Strategy wouldn’t have work). HOWEVER, as we all know just because a small portion of a group does something or possess a certain trait does not mean that it holds true for the entire group.

Posted by UVA08 on 23 September 02007 @ 10pm

caused*

Posted by UVA08 on 23 September 02007 @ 10pm

I used to think Bill O’Reilly was a cold, calculating figure who knew exactly which issue hot-buttons to press when, to get the desired response from both leftists and conservatives.

Then I read the full text of his sexual harassment lawsuit:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1013043mackris1.html
That guy really is just a fatuous, short-tempered nutball.

Posted by james on 24 September 02007 @ 12pm

Dealing with a crowd of people so desperate to find fault with their own country, I doubt there’s anything I could say to dissuade you all from the idea that America is a wicked country bent on the subjugation of people of color, etc., etc., etc.

First of all, finding fault in one’s country and seeking to right the wrongs found therein is a far more noble and patriotic thing to do than to just insist that everything is fine and that we’re the greatest nation on earth despite any evidence to the contrary… and the majority of the nation’s founding fathers would agree. That doesn’t make it emperically true, but I would think it’s an argument that someone with your perspective could easily agree with.

I’m really sick and tired of the strawman argument that liberals just like to complain about everything because they hate America. These complaints come directly from the fact that huge, unforgivable injustices have been committed and continue to be committed, and the schtick of putting your fingers in your ears and pretending everything’s fine is hardly an effictive way to distract us from the issues at hand.

Your complaints about thug-worshipping teenage boys with their pants around knees is a tired flogging of a one-dimensional stereotype… if this were 75 years ago and you replaced the adjectives in your description with the Amos-n-Andy tropes of the day, your comments would essentially amount to the same thing: outrage stemming from the fact that African Americans have been allowed access to something which has traditionally been a white privelege.

I’d REALLY like to see your list of all the things the US has “done for” blacks.

Here’s my list:
-kidnapping
-slavery
-treatment as second-class citizens
-economic oppression
-lychings
-ridicule

If this were a totally egalitarian and equal society, then I would be sympathetic to arguments against welfare, affirmative action, bussing, etc. However, it isn’t and I’m not. This scenario of equality is a delusional libertarian fantasyland at best and at worst it’s a stubborn conservative refusal to even discuss the issues for fear of ceding privelege.

There’s a huge amount of racism, inequality etc in contemporary American culture. Sure, lots of progress has been made, but there’s still much more progress to be made (as evidenced by, for example, Jena LA, where white criminals and black criminals are punished according to astronimically different levels of magnitude.)

Your essential argument seems to be that, although the government has placated liberals by pushing programs like affirmative action, you’re still upset because blacks are allowed to eat in restaurants. Forgive me if I’m hardly sympathetic.

Posted by james on 24 September 02007 @ 1pm

James,

Did you miss the other comments discussion about Doug Wilder? It’s ’special’ now. Not ‘nutcase,’ which is a word that is insensitive to nutcases. Bill O’Reilly is a fatuous, short-tempered, SPECIAL man.

So very special…

Posted by Jack on 24 September 02007 @ 5pm

I’m unwlling to give the benefit of the doubt to a movement led by Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, two of the most reprehensible demagouges in the history of modern American politics. The “civil rights” movement, including the NAACP, recently strove to have three innocent young men in Durham, NC incarcerated for 30-life for the crime of being white and wealthy. They don’t have a lot of credibility with me.

In contrast to the worthwhile pursuits before, during, and after bloody Selma, today’s “civil rights” movement focuses on the unbloodied “Jena Six,” a vicious coterie of thugs who beat some other kid unconscious for the crime of being white. That they, several with extensive criminal records, not be incarcerated for a “disproportionate” amount of time is the focus of today’s “civil rights” movement. Well. Sorry if I can’t get too excited about that.

Posted by Judge Smails on 24 September 02007 @ 9pm

So I guess our deal’s off?

Posted by MB on 24 September 02007 @ 9pm

If you think so little of the civil rights movement, JS, you’d do well not to let others know by putting it in condescension quotes. It’s kind of like believing you’ve been abducted by space aliens — not the sort of thing you want to share.

Posted by Waldo Jaquith on 24 September 02007 @ 9pm

It’s easy enough for Smails to say whatever the hell he wants because he is now and as far as I know (you may know differently Waldo) always has posted under that pseudonym.

Smails, I would like to know if you would stand by your comments here if we knew your name? If your hatred of the civil rights movement is so valid, why not share your identity? I promise, Al Sharpton doesn’t bite…

Posted by Dan Kachur on 24 September 02007 @ 9pm

JS…. You are full of it. I would like to encourage you to read up on the Jena case before you go calling them names. I want to know how you would react if you were part of a minority, were told you couldn’t sit under a tree because it was reserved for the majority, once you did do it you came back the next day to find threatening symbols hanging from it, and then were told by the DA that he could be your “worst enemy” if you didn’t stop protesting. Further, let’s say in this same town a member of your minority group was beaten up for being at a party that was for the majority. Following this incident you find out that no one is charged and it is treated as something between kids. Now let’s say you run into someone who insists on flaunting your second class status by calling you a racial epithet. Now let’s say you, as a teenager, are faced with the prospect of spending the rest of your damn life in prison because you retaliated in anger after tension building up for months. You think that’s fair?! You think in that situation you would deserve to be called a thug? I agree that some punishment is warranted by attempted murder???? JS you are the reason why 90% of the black race wants nothing to do with the Republican Party. People like you are the reason why an increasing amount of Hispanics want nothing to do with the Republican Party. Considering that in 2050 half of our nation will be minorities the Republican Party would be well advised to get some of their members to start rethinking their idiotic notions about race relations and cultural issues.

BTW you still haven’t answered the question… WHAT ARE ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT AMERICA HAS “DONE” FOR BLACK PEOPLE?

Posted by UVA08 on 25 September 02007 @ 12am

So because you dislike Al Sharpton, black people don’t deserve equal treatment? I’m just trying to clarify your argument here. I dislike opportunistic grandstanding as well, but I’m smart enough not to judge the worth of an entire race of people by the actions of a single individual — then again, I guess you’ve already proved that you’re incapable of doing that.

You realize that the notion of Justin Barker and the three Duke Lacross defendents as innocent victims of “racist” persecution is absurd, right? Like, Bizarro-Superman-level absurd? Like, exactly the opposite of what is actually happening?

Posted by james on 25 September 02007 @ 12am

“In contrast to the worthwhile pursuits before, during, and after bloody Selma, today’s “civil rights” movement focuses on the unbloodied “Jena Six,” a vicious coterie of thugs who beat some other kid unconscious for the crime of being white. That they, several with extensive criminal records, not be incarcerated for a “disproportionate” amount of time is the focus of today’s “civil rights” movement. Well. Sorry if I can’t get too excited about that.”

Everything that I have read about the incident(s) in Jena, LA suggests that there were numerous fights between black and white students that led up to the one for which the 6 kids were charged with 2nd degree attempted murder.

Do you have any vitriol for the white students who participated in these fights (but weren’t charged with felonies)?

Residents and others who have protested and/or complained about this situation believe that the 6 kids have been overcharged. When I read this about the victim in this case, I find it hard to argue with them:

“A doctor treated Barker, who was left unconscious after the attack, at the local hospital. He was released after two hours of treatment and observation for a concussion and an eye that had swollen shut.[11] The emergency physician’s record shows that he also had injuries to his face, ears and hand.[20] He was able to attend his school’s Ring ceremony that evening,”

So how is this fight different than the others that led up to it (a couple of which allegedly involved firearms)? The injuries that the victim sustained appear to me to be what one would typically expect from a fist fight. So what justifies the attempted murder charges? Why zero in on this one fight and ignore the others? And why are the white students who have been involved in these incidents not being equally charged?

Couple these apparent inequities with the long history of genuine inequity in the manner that justice has been dispensed for Blacks and Whites in the deep south and I think it’s fairly understandable that Black residents (and others who support them) are pissed off and very distrustful of the criminal justice process there.

Posted by Katey on 25 September 02007 @ 12am

Gosh, I see nothing raises the hackles of the greivance industry quite like being confronted with facts about today’s preposterous “civil rights” movement. One can easily see how things got so out of control in Durham: the story of white men of privilege preying upon a struggling black woman and objectifying her sexually fits so neatly the template you’ve all bought into that the actual facts no longer mattered. They were simply too good to check. I suspect some of the same prejudices and biases of the liberal media are at play in Jena. (Cue howls of righteous indignation.)

Of course, much like in Durham, by the time the truth comes out the satellite trucks will have left town – gone with the autumn leaves, and the national greivance theater of which you are all a part, unwittingly or not, will have moved on to a new outrage.

Posted by Judge Smails on 25 September 02007 @ 6am

Judge Smails…. Again What ar all the things that America has “done” for black people?

Posted by UVA08 on 25 September 02007 @ 8am

JS,
There’s plenty of information available about the incidents in Jena. I found Wikipedia to be a good starting point, but certainly not the only place to look. Have you done much reading about these events? Your comments suggest a lot of knee-jerk assumptions and not much objective analysis.

Posted by Katey on 25 September 02007 @ 9am

And yet no answers to any of the actual questions.

As Dan noted, I think that you’d be embarrassed to have your name attached to the ignorant bullshit you spew, JS. Please feel free to prove me wrong.

Posted by MB on 25 September 02007 @ 10am

Yeah, I’ve read plenty about Jena, and certainly there’s room to infer disparate treatment between the 6 black defendants and some of the white kids involved in events that occurred prior to the beating. Indeed, it looks like they (the Jena 6) got a raw deal.

There’s also the issue of the substantial violent criminal record of at least one of the six assailants and the fact that the beating of the white kid happened some 3 months after the nooses, which we’re supposed to believe led to a spontaneous one-time outburst of violence, were found in the tree. These, ahem, details are not emphasized by the media b/c they don’t fit neatly into the narrative of a bunch of modern-day Bull Connors in some backwater southern town run by a bunch of racist crackers railroading a half-dozen black choir boys.

In light of what we learned in Durham, you’ll forgive me for not jumping in the Jena bandwagon just yet.

Posted by Judge Smails on 25 September 02007 @ 10am

Smails, comparing Jena and Durham is invalid. The Durham kids were innocent. The issue was a malicious prosecutor (in that sense the cases are similar, maybe). In Jena, this issue is the inequality of the criminal justice system, with inflammatory comments by the authorities and a massive disparity in charges and consequently sentences for similar crimes.

What do you think would have happened if Andrew Alston had been black?

Posted by Dan Kachur on 25 September 02007 @ 10am

JS,
Mychall Bell’s criminal record has been mentioned in the media. His record is as a juvenile and was, until very recently, sealed and therefore unavailable to the media. Your earlier comment was that several of the boys have extensive criminal records. I have found nothing to support that anywhere. Additionally, only the most passive observer of this series of incidents would conclude that the hanging of the nooses and then the assault on Baker are the only two incidents in this case. There were several violent altercations between white and black students (some allegedly involving firearms) that occurred between the noose incident and the fight for which the 6 boys are being charged.

I realize it’s to the advantage of those that seek to simplify and/or minimize these events in order to frame it as ‘nooses vs. a beating’ but that’s just not the complete picture.

Basically you have a collection of fights and harassments between black students and white students. The black kids got charged with attempted murder and the white kids, when charged at all, faced only misdemeanor charges. To many, many people this looks like another example of the unequal application of justice and there’s a long history of precisely that in the deep south which only intensifies the emotional reactions and suspicions of Black residents in Jena,LA.

Posted by Katey on 25 September 02007 @ 10am

They are different, Dan, but comparing them is NOT invalid. It’s the narratives behind them, which dovetail so perfectly with the modern liberal worldview, that make me skeptical. In Durham: a single, black mother struggling to put herself through school raped and brutalized by rich, white jocks. In Jena: six put-upon black students who can no longer tolerate their mistreatment at the hands of vicious bigots and finally strike a blow (several, actually) for equality and are then made the scapegoats by a racist town.

I’m not buyin’ it yet. If you wanna brand me with the scarlet “R” for not getting carried away and toeing the liberal line much of the media is selling after they got it so disastrously wrong in Durham, fine.

Posted by Judge Smails on 25 September 02007 @ 10am

Hmm…I recall that there was considerable skepticism about the Durham case from the beginning. Lots of information about the accuser’s actions on the night in question cast serious doubt on her accusations. I only learned these things from the media…so I’m not sure what sort of ‘liberal line’ you’re referring to.

And in the Jena case, the media has consistently reported the fact that it has been difficult to sort out specific facts from exaggeration, omissions, and spin. I see no ‘liberal line’ being promulgated by the major media outlets. Perhaps you only see what most conveniently dovetails (to borrow your term) with YOUR worldview.

Posted by Katey on 25 September 02007 @ 11am

Judge Smails… Can I safely assume you didn’t know what you were talking about when you made the comment about how much America has “done” for black people?? You have been asked several times by different people to expand but you still haven’t said anything.

Posted by UVA08 on 25 September 02007 @ 11am

Since you keep asking, I’ll say hundreds of billions in government transfer payments and a place at the front of the line when it comes to college admissions. Indeed, you might say we’ve put blacks on a “peddle stool” (sic) when it comes to admissions.

Posted by Judge Smails on 25 September 02007 @ 12pm

Of course this, like so much else, is utter crap. It’s so hard, working at being a victim.

Posted by MB on 25 September 02007 @ 12pm

How did I know you would invoke government funding (as if only blacks get that or as if even a majority of blacks get any) and affirmative action (again as if only blacks and a large share of blacks benefit from it). As MB put it, this is crap like all the other stuff you posted on here. You would be better served by just admitting you don’t know what the hell you are talking about and to stop digging. Forgive me for being upset, but then again you should expect it from a affirmative action recieving, angry black man seeking out racism to complain about, student like myself, right?

Posted by UVA08 on 25 September 02007 @ 12pm

I’m unsure what you mean by ‘hundreds of billions in government transfer payments’. Is this some sort of reference to welfare? Last time I checked, social welfare programs are available to people of all ethnic groups. I fail to see how it would qualify as something that America has done for Black people. It’s something that America does for any people who qualify.

I will agree that affirmative action has benefited some Blacks. But when you stack that one positive up against centuries of slavery, followed by decades of discrimination in education, lending, housing, voting and employment, also blatant inequity in the legal system and a long list of other injustices it’s pretty hard not to laugh when someone asserts that America has done so very much for Black people.

Posted by Katey on 25 September 02007 @ 12pm

Smails, I love your new term ‘national grievance theater’ (corrected for spelling of course…perhaps you turned spell check off because it had too many grievances with your discourse, we know how you hate anything that needs attention).

Oh, the irony of that term, coming from the resident full time antagonist in this here lil’ theater.

An encore is as sure as a sunrise.

Posted by tim on 25 September 02007 @ 2pm

Make no mistake, there’s plenty of racial problems in Jena, although I suspect that this could have played out in any other city or town in America. Some prejudice, some “customs”, some bad judgement and some violence. It could just as easily happen here.

I do think that it’s a horrible public relations/political move to try to make the “Jena 6″ into poster boys for racial injustice, though. I don’t reckon that I’m the only one who finds it difficult to muster much sympathy for six guys who beat another guy unconscious. I don’t like bullies, whether they’re the likes of George Allen humiliating a college student in front of a hostile crowd, or a gang beating up an individual.

I would like to hear more about the young black freshman who went to the principal to ask if he was allowed to hang out at the “white” tree. Then, the next day, he broke the “color line”. That’s the hero. He’s the progeny of those who sat in at the Woolworth’s lunch counter. I want to hear more about his story.

Posted by Harry Landers on 25 September 02007 @ 3pm

Oh, I agree that the Jena 6 should be charged with assault as juveniles. I just don’t think they should be charged as adults with second-degree murder.

I also think the three students who hung nooses should be expelled and charged with terrorism, the district attorney should be fired for his unbelievable attitude towards the students (“I can end your life with one stroke of a pen”), the white kids who broke a beer bottle over someone’s head at a party should be charged with assault, and that the kid who pulled a shotgun on one of the Jena 6 in a convenience-store parking lot should be charged instead of the kid who wrestled the shotgun away from him.

In short, this story is full of absolutely reprehensible behavior, but the Jena 6 are being treated like murderers while the actions of all the white students are dismissed with “boys will be boys” and a shrug.

For me, this isn’t about sympathy for the Jena 6 (although I have plenty), so much as a desire to see justice applied fairly and equally… instead, these 6 kids are being held solely responsible for the tense racial problems of the entire community.

As a pacifist myself, I think the six black students who beat up a white student are hardly saints. Although, it’s perhaps worth noting that: if you’re a single white kid and racial tensions and violence have been high in your area, walking up to 6 black guys and making insulting, derogatory and presumably racist comments just might be a pretty good way to get your ass kicked.

Posted by james on 26 September 02007 @ 9am