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	<title>Comments on: You&#8217;re never anonymous on the internet.</title>
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	<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/</link>
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		<title>By: Waldo Jaquith</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17111</link>
		<dc:creator>Waldo Jaquith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17111</guid>
		<description>Daily Kos linked to this blog entry on Saturday afternoon, in a front-page story, sending many thousands of people this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daily Kos linked to this blog entry on Saturday afternoon, in a front-page story, sending many thousands of people this way.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim McCormack</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17110</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim McCormack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17110</guid>
		<description>I like how the last three commenters seem not to have read the complete thread, but feel the need to weigh in anyway. Wait, actually... I don&#039;t like that.

@Bill Evans at Mariposa: Kilo has admitted the comments came from his computer.

@shin-shoryuken: Kilo has admitted the comments came from his computer.

@Outlandish Josh: Kilo has admitted the comments came from his computer.

Also, I&#039;d like to point out that IP spoofing is out of the question when the WordPress software requires cookie-based challenge-response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like how the last three commenters seem not to have read the complete thread, but feel the need to weigh in anyway. Wait, actually&#8230; I don&#8217;t like that.</p>
<p>@Bill Evans at Mariposa: Kilo has admitted the comments came from his computer.</p>
<p>@shin-shoryuken: Kilo has admitted the comments came from his computer.</p>
<p>@Outlandish Josh: Kilo has admitted the comments came from his computer.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;d like to point out that IP spoofing is out of the question when the WordPress software requires cookie-based challenge-response.</p>
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		<title>By: Outlandish Josh</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17109</link>
		<dc:creator>Outlandish Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17109</guid>
		<description>I would only quibbly and say that being truly illusive or anonymous online is very difficult, not impossible. It&#039;s not really all that hard to spoof an IP address.

However, it&#039;s well beyond the capacity of 99.99% of everyday users if they could even start to grok how it all works. Certainly the appearance of anonymity is deceiving.

Also, as mentioned above, if you have an open network (wifi or otherwise) things may come from behind your NAT that aren&#039;t from you, or even your roommates. However, the odds of this type fo thing happening in the social circumstances you describe here seem very slim. Occam&#039;s razor says sockpuppets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would only quibbly and say that being truly illusive or anonymous online is very difficult, not impossible. It&#8217;s not really all that hard to spoof an IP address.</p>
<p>However, it&#8217;s well beyond the capacity of 99.99% of everyday users if they could even start to grok how it all works. Certainly the appearance of anonymity is deceiving.</p>
<p>Also, as mentioned above, if you have an open network (wifi or otherwise) things may come from behind your NAT that aren&#8217;t from you, or even your roommates. However, the odds of this type fo thing happening in the social circumstances you describe here seem very slim. Occam&#8217;s razor says sockpuppets.</p>
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		<title>By: shin-shoryuken</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17108</link>
		<dc:creator>shin-shoryuken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 22:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17108</guid>
		<description>IP addresses assigned by DHCP can change, but usually the DHCP server keeps logs of which IP addresses have been assigned recently and to which hardware addresses.  Therefore, if your computer is disconnected and reconnected within a certain time frame, DHCP will give you the same address you had previously.  It&#039;s a measure intended to keep IPs from shifting about randomly on a given network, as DHCP leases are of a set timespan and must be renewed by the host periodically.

If Kilo&#039;s the type to leave his tower running constantly and only occasionally reboot it, his IP address would be virtually static, despite being dynamically assigned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IP addresses assigned by DHCP can change, but usually the DHCP server keeps logs of which IP addresses have been assigned recently and to which hardware addresses.  Therefore, if your computer is disconnected and reconnected within a certain time frame, DHCP will give you the same address you had previously.  It&#8217;s a measure intended to keep IPs from shifting about randomly on a given network, as DHCP leases are of a set timespan and must be renewed by the host periodically.</p>
<p>If Kilo&#8217;s the type to leave his tower running constantly and only occasionally reboot it, his IP address would be virtually static, despite being dynamically assigned.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Evans at Mariposa</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17107</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Evans at Mariposa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17107</guid>
		<description>I apologize for such a late comment, but I just stumbled across this page.

I guess everyone&#039;s aware that there are still some folks on dial-up.

Even without intending to, every time someone on dial-up, um, dials up, he gets a new IP address.  This address is chosen by his ISP from a pool of typically 256, though it can be a multiple of 256 and sometimes (my experimentation shows) only 128.

So someone who makes a vile comment using dial-up is likely to have his tracks covered up by those preceding and following him who are assigned the same IP address.  Without even lifting a finger.

Of course, the ISP has the logs to show who dialed up and used what IP address when.  But I&#039;m guessing that most bloggers, Waldo included, won&#039;t bother to contact the ISP, and most ISP&#039;s won&#039;t respond unless it&#039;s a police matter (or the MPAA or RIAA, which are police forces unto themselves).

So people on dial-up need do NOTHING to protect themselves effectively from non-police investigation into their identity.  And (I&#039;m guessing) there are still some people still just on dial-up.

I have dial-up and DSL.  I use DSL unless I want (weak) privacy.

Waldo, your concerns are valid.  Just don&#039;t gloat too quickly over what IP addresses can give you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologize for such a late comment, but I just stumbled across this page.</p>
<p>I guess everyone&#8217;s aware that there are still some folks on dial-up.</p>
<p>Even without intending to, every time someone on dial-up, um, dials up, he gets a new IP address.  This address is chosen by his ISP from a pool of typically 256, though it can be a multiple of 256 and sometimes (my experimentation shows) only 128.</p>
<p>So someone who makes a vile comment using dial-up is likely to have his tracks covered up by those preceding and following him who are assigned the same IP address.  Without even lifting a finger.</p>
<p>Of course, the ISP has the logs to show who dialed up and used what IP address when.  But I&#8217;m guessing that most bloggers, Waldo included, won&#8217;t bother to contact the ISP, and most ISP&#8217;s won&#8217;t respond unless it&#8217;s a police matter (or the MPAA or RIAA, which are police forces unto themselves).</p>
<p>So people on dial-up need do NOTHING to protect themselves effectively from non-police investigation into their identity.  And (I&#8217;m guessing) there are still some people still just on dial-up.</p>
<p>I have dial-up and DSL.  I use DSL unless I want (weak) privacy.</p>
<p>Waldo, your concerns are valid.  Just don&#8217;t gloat too quickly over what IP addresses can give you.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17106</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 20:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17106</guid>
		<description>This is my first time to visit this site and, alas, likely to be the last.  As a blogger, my problem is not at all tracking down trolls.  I judge that for me, it&#039;s not worth my time.  The real problem is a blogosphere that is all too often clogged with ad hominem attacks that go nowhere.  Even with the IP fillup, that&#039;s all this is.  What&#039;s worse, IMHO, is that the attacks all too often resolve themselves into the same old tired sobriquets referencing Hitler and Stalin.  Will someone other than George Will ever cite Rome and Carthage?  It&#039;s not like history isn&#039;t replete with bad guys or other opportunities for misplaced comparisons.  I sometimes long for some hated poster to be called out as a Genghis Kahn or a Pol Pot or anyone else other than those two mad totalitarians from the middle of the last century.   I feel the same about liars&#039; contests:  the first liar always loses.  I accept them as a fact of life in any coffeehouse-type discussion, but if we&#039;re going to have them, couldn&#039;t we at least show a little elan and creativity?  Will someone be gravely mistaken and misguided just once?  In the present case, what really makes me the most curious is that the discussion has come down to the quality of Waldo&#039;s evidence upon which he reached his conclusions.  Where&#039;s the response from any of those accused of making &quot;nasty&quot; comments that:  &quot;It wasn&#039;t me and I don&#039;t abide that kind of argument and believe it is not helpful from any quarter, including in support of my position, and ask that anyone who wishes to support my &quot;side&quot; refrain from such tactics.&quot;?  The real question is not who posted or from what IP, the real question is why does anyone put up with the tactic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my first time to visit this site and, alas, likely to be the last.  As a blogger, my problem is not at all tracking down trolls.  I judge that for me, it&#8217;s not worth my time.  The real problem is a blogosphere that is all too often clogged with ad hominem attacks that go nowhere.  Even with the IP fillup, that&#8217;s all this is.  What&#8217;s worse, IMHO, is that the attacks all too often resolve themselves into the same old tired sobriquets referencing Hitler and Stalin.  Will someone other than George Will ever cite Rome and Carthage?  It&#8217;s not like history isn&#8217;t replete with bad guys or other opportunities for misplaced comparisons.  I sometimes long for some hated poster to be called out as a Genghis Kahn or a Pol Pot or anyone else other than those two mad totalitarians from the middle of the last century.   I feel the same about liars&#8217; contests:  the first liar always loses.  I accept them as a fact of life in any coffeehouse-type discussion, but if we&#8217;re going to have them, couldn&#8217;t we at least show a little elan and creativity?  Will someone be gravely mistaken and misguided just once?  In the present case, what really makes me the most curious is that the discussion has come down to the quality of Waldo&#8217;s evidence upon which he reached his conclusions.  Where&#8217;s the response from any of those accused of making &#8220;nasty&#8221; comments that:  &#8220;It wasn&#8217;t me and I don&#8217;t abide that kind of argument and believe it is not helpful from any quarter, including in support of my position, and ask that anyone who wishes to support my &#8220;side&#8221; refrain from such tactics.&#8221;?  The real question is not who posted or from what IP, the real question is why does anyone put up with the tactic.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaleberg</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17104</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaleberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17104</guid>
		<description>1) Because of the way internet routing works, IP addresses are geographically structured. If you and your neighbor have the same ISP, you will have similar IP addresses. You will most likely rotate through a short list of similar addresses. My experience is that ISPs tend to be lazy about reallocation. My ISP doesn&#039;t guarantee me a static IP address, but my IP address hasn&#039;t changed in four years.

2) One interesting problem is the open WiFi network. In my sister&#039;s apartment building in Manhattan, there are dozens of networks, many of them open. It wasn&#039;t worth tweaking the base station in the living room when there was already somebody else&#039;s network in the bedroom. Presumably, some OTHER neighbor is using the open network in the living room.

The open wireless network defense has been used in DMCA cases, and it makes sense to download music from P2P networks and the like from public facilities, just as it made sense for spies to use pay phones in old WWII movies.

3) Wise Girl may be correct in stating that IP addresses are not solid proof of identity, however they are evidence, and in some cases there is a preponderance of evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Because of the way internet routing works, IP addresses are geographically structured. If you and your neighbor have the same ISP, you will have similar IP addresses. You will most likely rotate through a short list of similar addresses. My experience is that ISPs tend to be lazy about reallocation. My ISP doesn&#8217;t guarantee me a static IP address, but my IP address hasn&#8217;t changed in four years.</p>
<p>2) One interesting problem is the open WiFi network. In my sister&#8217;s apartment building in Manhattan, there are dozens of networks, many of them open. It wasn&#8217;t worth tweaking the base station in the living room when there was already somebody else&#8217;s network in the bedroom. Presumably, some OTHER neighbor is using the open network in the living room.</p>
<p>The open wireless network defense has been used in DMCA cases, and it makes sense to download music from P2P networks and the like from public facilities, just as it made sense for spies to use pay phones in old WWII movies.</p>
<p>3) Wise Girl may be correct in stating that IP addresses are not solid proof of identity, however they are evidence, and in some cases there is a preponderance of evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Bubby</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17033</link>
		<dc:creator>Bubby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17033</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;ve always thought that the postings of James Young reflect  the ruminations of a man who thinks he has all the answers, when in fact he hasn&#039;t heard all the questions.

But never mind that, I have comment #101 on this thread and I require compensation!  Waldo, give me my prize!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ve always thought that the postings of James Young reflect  the ruminations of a man who thinks he has all the answers, when in fact he hasn&#8217;t heard all the questions.</p>
<p>But never mind that, I have comment #101 on this thread and I require compensation!  Waldo, give me my prize!</p>
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		<title>By: James Young</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17024</link>
		<dc:creator>James Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 02:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17024</guid>
		<description>I agree with much of what you&#039;ve said here, Waldo.  It is this fundamental truth that caused me, a long time ago, to decide to post only under my own name.  To my mind, it&#039;s the only honorable way to behave.  I consider all those who post under pseudonyms or anonymously as, to one degree or another, dishonorable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with much of what you&#8217;ve said here, Waldo.  It is this fundamental truth that caused me, a long time ago, to decide to post only under my own name.  To my mind, it&#8217;s the only honorable way to behave.  I consider all those who post under pseudonyms or anonymously as, to one degree or another, dishonorable.</p>
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		<title>By: Waldo Jaquith</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17013</link>
		<dc:creator>Waldo Jaquith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17013</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You know, perhaps someone has already mentined this but it is possible to resolve non-secure IP Addresses to GPS Coordinants. Figuring our that he sent this from home should be as simple as looking up his home address getting the GPS for that and comparing it to the IP. Right?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Oh, yes, the IP resolves to near the Tennessee border.

But, again, Carl has admitted that the IP is his home IP, and his girlfriend posted from that same IP on this very thread, so there&#039;s zero question that it&#039;s his home.  He simply lacks the courage to admit that it was him, and didn&#039;t even have the good sense to take &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-16976&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the easy out that I gave him&lt;/a&gt;.  Like I said, lying is like alcoholism, and Carl is way, way off the wagon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You know, perhaps someone has already mentined this but it is possible to resolve non-secure IP Addresses to GPS Coordinants. Figuring our that he sent this from home should be as simple as looking up his home address getting the GPS for that and comparing it to the IP. Right?</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh, yes, the IP resolves to near the Tennessee border.</p>
<p>But, again, Carl has admitted that the IP is his home IP, and his girlfriend posted from that same IP on this very thread, so there&#8217;s zero question that it&#8217;s his home.  He simply lacks the courage to admit that it was him, and didn&#8217;t even have the good sense to take <a href="#comment-16976">the easy out that I gave him</a>.  Like I said, lying is like alcoholism, and Carl is way, way off the wagon.</p>
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		<title>By: MB</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17012</link>
		<dc:creator>MB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17012</guid>
		<description>Really now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really now.</p>
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		<title>By: Lonnie</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17011</link>
		<dc:creator>Lonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17011</guid>
		<description>You know, perhaps someone has already mentined this but it is possible to resolve non-secure IP Addresses to GPS Coordinants.  Figuring our that he sent this from home should be as simple as looking up his home address getting the GPS for that and comparing it to the IP.  Right?

So... Waldo being a bright guy and all, I bet he *could* demonstrate whether an IP Came from this Kilo&#039;s house or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, perhaps someone has already mentined this but it is possible to resolve non-secure IP Addresses to GPS Coordinants.  Figuring our that he sent this from home should be as simple as looking up his home address getting the GPS for that and comparing it to the IP.  Right?</p>
<p>So&#8230; Waldo being a bright guy and all, I bet he *could* demonstrate whether an IP Came from this Kilo&#8217;s house or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Bubby</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17006</link>
		<dc:creator>Bubby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 16:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17006</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Shouldn’t Kilo be irritated that Senor Turds is using an email address to post things that either Kilo or the equally mysterious “Billy” has used in the past?&lt;/i&gt; -Plunge&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not if he is sleeping with &quot;Teddy&quot; and &quot;Billy&quot;. I spent some time in a commune, things get messy.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;I have not lost readership or or received any negative feedback from my readers.&lt;/i&gt; -Kilo&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

Those aren&#039;t readers Kilo, they&#039;re rubberneckers - come by to see the spectacle.  And we know how you deal &quot;negative feedback&quot; son. You have all the tolerance for criticism of Saddam Hussein.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>Shouldn’t Kilo be irritated that Senor Turds is using an email address to post things that either Kilo or the equally mysterious “Billy” has used in the past?</i> -Plunge</p></blockquote>
<p>Not if he is sleeping with &#8220;Teddy&#8221; and &#8220;Billy&#8221;. I spent some time in a commune, things get messy.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>I have not lost readership or or received any negative feedback from my readers.</i> -Kilo</p></blockquote>
<p>Those aren&#8217;t readers Kilo, they&#8217;re rubberneckers &#8211; come by to see the spectacle.  And we know how you deal &#8220;negative feedback&#8221; son. You have all the tolerance for criticism of Saddam Hussein.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim McCormack</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17004</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim McCormack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17004</guid>
		<description>STD: Given recent trends, it is more likely that Kilo would post a picture of his own mother and make fun of her by accident:

 * It is clear that he doesn&#039;t know what an IP address is, yet he keeps arguing about it. (Digging a deeper hole.)
 * He and Wise Girl keep referring to unseen people who have not since left a comment here, or contacted Waldo.
 * The story keeps changing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>STD: Given recent trends, it is more likely that Kilo would post a picture of his own mother and make fun of her by accident:</p>
<p> * It is clear that he doesn&#8217;t know what an IP address is, yet he keeps arguing about it. (Digging a deeper hole.)<br />
 * He and Wise Girl keep referring to unseen people who have not since left a comment here, or contacted Waldo.<br />
 * The story keeps changing.</p>
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		<title>By: Spank That Donkey</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17000</link>
		<dc:creator>Spank That Donkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2007/06/internet-anonymity/#comment-17000</guid>
		<description>Careful Kilo, he&#039;ll post a photo of your mother and make fun of it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Careful Kilo, he&#8217;ll post a photo of your mother and make fun of it&#8230;</p>
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