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	<title>Comments on: Should I shut down the aggregator?</title>
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	<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 05:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Brian&#8217;s Agg. &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Mr. Fuhrman gets it wrong</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-13041</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian&#8217;s Agg. &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Mr. Fuhrman gets it wrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-13041</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211; 1 No blog has ever been removed from the Southwest Virginia Blogs aggregator, but the offensive content, which has recently been discussed at length, would certainly be a basis for removal. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211; 1 No blog has ever been removed from the Southwest Virginia Blogs aggregator, but the offensive content, which has recently been discussed at length, would certainly be a basis for removal. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Patton &#187; Mr. Fuhrman gets it wrong</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12649</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Patton &#187; Mr. Fuhrman gets it wrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 14:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12649</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211; 1 No blog has ever been removed from the Southwest Virginia Blogs aggregator, but the offensive content, which has recently been discussed at length, would certainly be a basis for removal. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211; 1 No blog has ever been removed from the Southwest Virginia Blogs aggregator, but the offensive content, which has recently been discussed at length, would certainly be a basis for removal. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Ward View &#187; Why I write. Why I&#8217;m staying.</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12630</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ward View &#187; Why I write. Why I&#8217;m staying.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Dec 2006 06:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12630</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;m not going to review the whole chronology of what transpired.  Waldo gives a pretty good rundown of what started things with: Should I shut down the aggregator. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;m not going to review the whole chronology of what transpired.  Waldo gives a pretty good rundown of what started things with: Should I shut down the aggregator. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: plunge</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12626</link>
		<dc:creator>plunge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Dec 2006 02:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12626</guid>
		<description>charles, you talk a big game, but why did you not just take waldo up on his offer?  I volunteer to be the one to post any image I like on your blog, and you don't get to say anything about it or explain it.  Surely, you'd want to be consistent with your principles, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>charles, you talk a big game, but why did you not just take waldo up on his offer?  I volunteer to be the one to post any image I like on your blog, and you don&#8217;t get to say anything about it or explain it.  Surely, you&#8217;d want to be consistent with your principles, no?</p>
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		<title>By: charles</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12595</link>
		<dc:creator>charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 05:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12595</guid>
		<description>Waldo, you can remove my site.  I'm sure nobody will miss it anyway, but I don't see the point of being involved in the aggregator anymore.  In spite of the "head of steam" some people think it has, I was already soured on it as I realised it was just a way to take other people's content and put it where readers didn't have to visit the originator's site.

That didn't matter to me, I don't advertise or take any money or get anything back for "hits", but on the other hand if I am at risk for being removed, I'd rather it be by request, rather than by an absurd application of liberal sensibility.

I avoided watching images of beheading as well, but it did happen, and there's a lot worse in this world than being reminded of the war we are engaged in.

I don't know if the aggregator brought my blog any "attention", maybe it just made it easier for the hit squads to know where they had to go to make comments without having to actually do any work of monitoring the blogs themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Waldo, you can remove my site.  I&#8217;m sure nobody will miss it anyway, but I don&#8217;t see the point of being involved in the aggregator anymore.  In spite of the &#8220;head of steam&#8221; some people think it has, I was already soured on it as I realised it was just a way to take other people&#8217;s content and put it where readers didn&#8217;t have to visit the originator&#8217;s site.</p>
<p>That didn&#8217;t matter to me, I don&#8217;t advertise or take any money or get anything back for &#8220;hits&#8221;, but on the other hand if I am at risk for being removed, I&#8217;d rather it be by request, rather than by an absurd application of liberal sensibility.</p>
<p>I avoided watching images of beheading as well, but it did happen, and there&#8217;s a lot worse in this world than being reminded of the war we are engaged in.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if the aggregator brought my blog any &#8220;attention&#8221;, maybe it just made it easier for the hit squads to know where they had to go to make comments without having to actually do any work of monitoring the blogs themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12594</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 05:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12594</guid>
		<description>Goodness.  I simply cannot believe that there is any argument over this.  It's Waldo's site, he can do whatever he wants.  Go start your own aggregator if you disagree with whatever policies he implements.

I have to be honest, I've never even visited the aggregator (I subscribe to most of the feeds through my RSS reader, anyway).  But it sounds like Waldo's aggregator has done a good job of bringing attention to a lot of conservative blogs.  

That's strange behavior for a lefty who is supposedly so bent on censoring certain viewpoints from the right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goodness.  I simply cannot believe that there is any argument over this.  It&#8217;s Waldo&#8217;s site, he can do whatever he wants.  Go start your own aggregator if you disagree with whatever policies he implements.</p>
<p>I have to be honest, I&#8217;ve never even visited the aggregator (I subscribe to most of the feeds through my RSS reader, anyway).  But it sounds like Waldo&#8217;s aggregator has done a good job of bringing attention to a lot of conservative blogs.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s strange behavior for a lefty who is supposedly so bent on censoring certain viewpoints from the right.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Sharp</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12542</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Sharp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Dec 2006 00:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12542</guid>
		<description>Waldo, 

I didn't use VPB, and I won't use WVPB. But I do want to thank you for two things: being one of the most innovative bloggers in 2006, and for tackling the big questions, like how we use the commons and what censorship is and is not.

I thought GGD crossed the line when he compared Governor Kaine's preschool initiatives to the Hitler youth, but what do I know. I guess I just have thinner skin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Waldo, </p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t use VPB, and I won&#8217;t use WVPB. But I do want to thank you for two things: being one of the most innovative bloggers in 2006, and for tackling the big questions, like how we use the commons and what censorship is and is not.</p>
<p>I thought GGD crossed the line when he compared Governor Kaine&#8217;s preschool initiatives to the Hitler youth, but what do I know. I guess I just have thinner skin.</p>
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		<title>By: Reid Greenmun</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12521</link>
		<dc:creator>Reid Greenmun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 20:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12521</guid>
		<description>Wow! Back in the daze of the now defunct Virginian-Pilot's &lt;b&gt;TalkNet&lt;/b&gt; era, we "posters" had "posts" deleted all the time. While we might have complained about it, we usually just moved on. Instead of discussing &lt;i&gt;the media&lt;/i&gt; we used for our discussions, or the censorship we had from time to time, we got back to discussing the issues themselves - or, some of the posters simply left out of protest. Well, to be completely truthful, much like these commnets we often discussed the &lt;b&gt;individuals&lt;/b&gt; posting their views. Ugly and often rude and mean spirited "personal attacks" (online cat fights) where the norm. The "issues" were just different topics from which we could find ammunition to shoot at each other. 

Gee ... so much has changed 

The one thing said in all of this fine discussion that I noticed was the conversation RE: the use of false names. Me? My online experiences have taught me that I'd encourage all of you to promote greater use of real names. &lt;b&gt;Accountability is a good thing.&lt;/b&gt; The online conversation can benefit a great deal from folks knowing they can be held accountable for the words they communicate in the public square. Politically motivated rumors too.

I have used my real name since back in the early 1980s when I first began discussing issues "on line". Yeah, I'm old. It happens. 

Perhaps the recent media attention paid to "Bloggers" has caused some folks to place far too much significance on the "Blogoshere"??? - instead of appreciating that the real value of having community forums available &lt;i&gt;online&lt;/i&gt; is for 24/7 access to varied points of view from folks of different ideological beliefs - a place to go &lt;b&gt;to discuss issues and viewpoints&lt;/b&gt;; hopefully learning from one another in the process.

Believe it ot not - Free Speech - and honest conversation can help prevent polarized "sides" from actually reverting to physical violence. Understanding each other - and learning to respect one another can be a wonderful thing.

But ... it seems to me that most of the folks I've read on this thread already know this - and are doing your best to practice it.

Nice job.

Like a few folks pointed out - this discussion could have become a whole lot uglier than it did. It is nice to witness folks doing their best to get along in a civil manner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Back in the daze of the now defunct Virginian-Pilot&#8217;s <b>TalkNet</b> era, we &#8220;posters&#8221; had &#8220;posts&#8221; deleted all the time. While we might have complained about it, we usually just moved on. Instead of discussing <i>the media</i> we used for our discussions, or the censorship we had from time to time, we got back to discussing the issues themselves - or, some of the posters simply left out of protest. Well, to be completely truthful, much like these commnets we often discussed the <b>individuals</b> posting their views. Ugly and often rude and mean spirited &#8220;personal attacks&#8221; (online cat fights) where the norm. The &#8220;issues&#8221; were just different topics from which we could find ammunition to shoot at each other. </p>
<p>Gee &#8230; so much has changed </p>
<p>The one thing said in all of this fine discussion that I noticed was the conversation RE: the use of false names. Me? My online experiences have taught me that I&#8217;d encourage all of you to promote greater use of real names. <b>Accountability is a good thing.</b> The online conversation can benefit a great deal from folks knowing they can be held accountable for the words they communicate in the public square. Politically motivated rumors too.</p>
<p>I have used my real name since back in the early 1980s when I first began discussing issues &#8220;on line&#8221;. Yeah, I&#8217;m old. It happens. </p>
<p>Perhaps the recent media attention paid to &#8220;Bloggers&#8221; has caused some folks to place far too much significance on the &#8220;Blogoshere&#8221;??? - instead of appreciating that the real value of having community forums available <i>online</i> is for 24/7 access to varied points of view from folks of different ideological beliefs - a place to go <b>to discuss issues and viewpoints</b>; hopefully learning from one another in the process.</p>
<p>Believe it ot not - Free Speech - and honest conversation can help prevent polarized &#8220;sides&#8221; from actually reverting to physical violence. Understanding each other - and learning to respect one another can be a wonderful thing.</p>
<p>But &#8230; it seems to me that most of the folks I&#8217;ve read on this thread already know this - and are doing your best to practice it.</p>
<p>Nice job.</p>
<p>Like a few folks pointed out - this discussion could have become a whole lot uglier than it did. It is nice to witness folks doing their best to get along in a civil manner.</p>
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		<title>By: Waldo Jaquith</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12514</link>
		<dc:creator>Waldo Jaquith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 19:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12514</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Now it seems you are asking that any blogger who disagrees with you must agree to post a disgusting graphic, sight unseen, to get back into your good graces and back onto your aggregator. If they choose not post the graphic that you have chosen, then they will remain out of the aggregator for having the audacity to question you. Do I have that right?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No, you have it wrong.  See &lt;a href="#comment-12507" rel="nofollow"&gt;Triscula's explanation&lt;/a&gt;.

Flora wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I know you are a busy dude but when you have a moment could you forward me a copy of the email I sent asking to be included on your aggregator? For the life of me I can’t find it in my sent box nor do I remember even composing it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It was Alton who e-mailed me and asked that I include you.  I'd be happy to forward you that e-mail, but I would require Alton's permission to do so, as I hold such things in confidence.  Normally I would not even reveal that it was he who sent the e-mail, but given his role in this, I feel considerably less hesitant now.

You and I exchanged some e-mail about your site's inclusion; you were troubled that, at times, your entire posts weren't showing up, but only selected portions.  We never entirely fixed the problem, but I did help you debug some HTML problems with your site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Now it seems you are asking that any blogger who disagrees with you must agree to post a disgusting graphic, sight unseen, to get back into your good graces and back onto your aggregator. If they choose not post the graphic that you have chosen, then they will remain out of the aggregator for having the audacity to question you. Do I have that right?</p></blockquote>
<p>No, you have it wrong.  See <a href="#comment-12507" rel="nofollow">Triscula&#8217;s explanation</a>.</p>
<p>Flora wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>I know you are a busy dude but when you have a moment could you forward me a copy of the email I sent asking to be included on your aggregator? For the life of me I can’t find it in my sent box nor do I remember even composing it.</p></blockquote>
<p>It was Alton who e-mailed me and asked that I include you.  I&#8217;d be happy to forward you that e-mail, but I would require Alton&#8217;s permission to do so, as I hold such things in confidence.  Normally I would not even reveal that it was he who sent the e-mail, but given his role in this, I feel considerably less hesitant now.</p>
<p>You and I exchanged some e-mail about your site&#8217;s inclusion; you were troubled that, at times, your entire posts weren&#8217;t showing up, but only selected portions.  We never entirely fixed the problem, but I did help you debug some HTML problems with your site.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim McCormack</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12512</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim McCormack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 19:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12512</guid>
		<description>I really like the image-stripping idea. It saves bandwidth for everyone involved -- and it might teach folks to set the "alt" attribute on images. :-P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really like the image-stripping idea. It saves bandwidth for everyone involved &#8212; and it might teach folks to set the &#8220;alt&#8221; attribute on images. :-P</p>
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		<title>By: novamiddleman</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12511</link>
		<dc:creator>novamiddleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 19:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12511</guid>
		<description>I have no opinion in this fight I just find your new title humorous.  A loyal reader of the blog aggregrator who cant spell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no opinion in this fight I just find your new title humorous.  A loyal reader of the blog aggregrator who cant spell</p>
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		<title>By: Roci</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12510</link>
		<dc:creator>Roci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 15:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12510</guid>
		<description>What you should do:

1.  Examine your first principles.  Why did you start it in the first place?

2.  Does it still meet that need?

3.  If no, can it meet that need again with some alterations?

4.  If no, then why bother?

There is another alternative.  Can't you modify your script so that all pictures are not displayed?  Then people would have to go to the originating site for pictures.  This would be an added benefit for people with dial-up accounts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you should do:</p>
<p>1.  Examine your first principles.  Why did you start it in the first place?</p>
<p>2.  Does it still meet that need?</p>
<p>3.  If no, can it meet that need again with some alterations?</p>
<p>4.  If no, then why bother?</p>
<p>There is another alternative.  Can&#8217;t you modify your script so that all pictures are not displayed?  Then people would have to go to the originating site for pictures.  This would be an added benefit for people with dial-up accounts.</p>
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		<title>By: Not Jack Herrity</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12509</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Jack Herrity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 15:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12509</guid>
		<description>Waldo, you made the right move.  I saw the images, they were disgusting.  If you shut down the aggregator you're punishing the majority for the actions of one lone racist.  You were right to do what you did.  Don't make it any harder than it is.  Case closed.  

NJH</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Waldo, you made the right move.  I saw the images, they were disgusting.  If you shut down the aggregator you&#8217;re punishing the majority for the actions of one lone racist.  You were right to do what you did.  Don&#8217;t make it any harder than it is.  Case closed.  </p>
<p>NJH</p>
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		<title>By: Triscula</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12507</link>
		<dc:creator>Triscula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 04:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12507</guid>
		<description>Janie:

Here is what Waldo said in his 'olive branch' offer:

"I have an offer. Let’s call it an olive branch, in the spirit of Christmas. (This was suggested to me via e-mail just now.)

I will restore the blog in question to the aggregator and not add any new rules. If this single condition is met.

I want the complaining blogs (Alton, GGD, Jonathan Maxfield, Chris, SWAC Girl, Carl, Flora McDonald and Kat) to post the blog entry of my choice on their blog."

So, no, it appears that you don't have it right.
As far as I know there haven't been any threats to remove anyone from the aggregator.  GGD's blog was removed because removing the blog was the only way to remove the post (as Waldo mentioned further up in the comments).

Waldo's offer (and I believe it was meant more to make a point than it was to serve as a genuine offer, but I may be wrong)was for the biggest complainers to put themselves in a similar position of having to post a very offensive image, not of their choosing, on their own site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Janie:</p>
<p>Here is what Waldo said in his &#8216;olive branch&#8217; offer:</p>
<p>&#8220;I have an offer. Let’s call it an olive branch, in the spirit of Christmas. (This was suggested to me via e-mail just now.)</p>
<p>I will restore the blog in question to the aggregator and not add any new rules. If this single condition is met.</p>
<p>I want the complaining blogs (Alton, GGD, Jonathan Maxfield, Chris, SWAC Girl, Carl, Flora McDonald and Kat) to post the blog entry of my choice on their blog.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, no, it appears that you don&#8217;t have it right.<br />
As far as I know there haven&#8217;t been any threats to remove anyone from the aggregator.  GGD&#8217;s blog was removed because removing the blog was the only way to remove the post (as Waldo mentioned further up in the comments).</p>
<p>Waldo&#8217;s offer (and I believe it was meant more to make a point than it was to serve as a genuine offer, but I may be wrong)was for the biggest complainers to put themselves in a similar position of having to post a very offensive image, not of their choosing, on their own site.</p>
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		<title>By: f mcdonald</title>
		<link>http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12506</link>
		<dc:creator>f mcdonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 03:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waldo.jaquith.org/blog/2006/12/shut-down-aggregator/#comment-12506</guid>
		<description>Waldo-
I know you are a busy dude but when you have a moment could you forward me a copy of the email I sent asking to be included on your aggregator? For the life of me I can't find it in my sent box nor do I remember even composing it.

I didn't mind at all that you included the UCV blog, though, and thought it was quite clever of you to have created the VPB as it must have been a bit time consuming and perhaps costly.

You may remove the link to our blog or leave it. The choice is yours. I have made no demands on you and expect the same in return.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Waldo-<br />
I know you are a busy dude but when you have a moment could you forward me a copy of the email I sent asking to be included on your aggregator? For the life of me I can&#8217;t find it in my sent box nor do I remember even composing it.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t mind at all that you included the UCV blog, though, and thought it was quite clever of you to have created the VPB as it must have been a bit time consuming and perhaps costly.</p>
<p>You may remove the link to our blog or leave it. The choice is yours. I have made no demands on you and expect the same in return.</p>
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