Amen!

Posted by Shaun on 16 November 2006 @ 1pm

/signed

Posted by Joe on 16 November 2006 @ 2pm

I agree – we accomplish nothing by simply drawing lines in the sand.

Posted by Vivian J. Paige on 16 November 2006 @ 3pm

A call for political debate and discourse instead of talking points and rubberstamps. A Greek format of true representative democracy.

However, look at our audience. Most of the people that read or interact with Virginia political blogs are rather political themselves. They are usually partisan in nature (nothing wrong with that btw) the point is it is extremely unlikely that individual minds or party affliations will be changed. Therefore blogs are used as red or blue meat to rile the base

There is a whole other class of blogs that focus on poltical news and gossip (nothing wrong with that either)

This doesn’t change the true beauty of the blogosphere that anyone can post and comment however they see fit. Which I may add is a beautiful thing about a free market economy… (had to throw out a partisan thing there) :)

Cheers

Posted by novamiddleman on 16 November 2006 @ 4pm

However, look at our audience. Most of the people that read or interact with Virginia political blogs are rather political themselves. They are usually partisan in nature (nothing wrong with that btw) the point is it is extremely unlikely that individual minds or party affliations will be changed.

I understand what you’re saying, but I think you underestimate readers. (Or, at least, I hope that you are. :) My mind has been changed many times by what I’ve read on political blogs, particularly by those with whom I tend to disagree. Though, of course, that’s because those with whom I tend to agree provide nothing to change my mind because, after all, we agree. I’ve certainly seen many other instances of minds being changed by well-written blog entries.

Of course, that’s just one potential goal for bloggers. Another goal might be to tell a good story, or provide a valuable narrative. Another might be to learn from their readers and have their own mind changed. And another still might be to teach new facts to readers. None of these things are in any way inhibited by the inherently partisan nature of politics.

I think the only real obstacle to such goals is probably that it’s not easy. But — as you point out — if somebody’s not going to put the effort into writing any thing interesting, I’m certainly not going to go to the trouble of reading it. Increasingly, though, I wonder why I’m providing such blather with a wider audience.

Posted by Waldo Jaquith on 16 November 2006 @ 4pm

I am happy to say that I read Norm more often than I read some Democratic blogs. I can trust that there will not be any “diarrhea of the mind” over at One Man’s Trash.

Posted by Adam Sharp on 16 November 2006 @ 5pm

How can you post this entry with this one directly below it. The irony is truly amazing

“Does anybody have a feeling as to who will head up the Republican Party of Virginia now that Kate Obenshain Griffin is stepping down? Any ideas as to who should lead the party, who shouldn’t, or at least an ideological direction they’ll go in? I forecast they’ll elect somebody even farther to the right than Griffin, carrying on that proud tradition among Virginia Republican elites of being totally and cluelessly out of the mainstream.”

You are entitled to your opinion but these two posts seem rather contradictory and was partially why I commented originally the way I did.

Cheers

Posted by novamiddleman on 16 November 2006 @ 5pm

I have to agree with novamiddleman.

Also, I have to wonder who exactly it is that’s dragging down the level of blog discourse, since you provide no examples. Being specific might conflict with your desire to be seen as the upholder of civility, but hand-wringing with no specifics comes off as — well, pompous and gutless at the same time.

Posted by Nell on 16 November 2006 @ 5pm

Nell, I think providing examples would be more pompus than just not pointing fingers.

Also, from personal observation over the last five years, blogs sans real content rarely last long. They are always around, but it’s not the same blogs after a year or so. People who care know where to go for real information, though, and as long as they engage those bloggers they’ll stick around for a while.

Posted by Jason on 16 November 2006 @ 5pm

It’s natural. Virginia blogs have entered their–dare I say it–adolescence. As with any medium, the folks who were there first are always sour on the upstarts.

Posted by Kenton Ngo on 16 November 2006 @ 5pm

How can you post this entry with this one directly below it. The irony is truly amazing

[...]

You are entitled to your opinion but these two posts seem rather contradictory and was partially why I commented originally the way I did.

I’m not sure I understand how they’re contradictory. The purpose of the post was to elicit discussion such that I could learn from those commenting. I do this occasionally, such as asking what’s wrong with securing the borders and whether anybody outside of Virginia is aware of Mark Warner.

That said, I’m not sure why I need to be a paragon of virtue. Though I strive to provide, overall, a high level of valuable blog entries, not all will be. Sometimes I just post a photograph that I’ve taken because I like it, and I think others might, too. I’m not sure that’s a bad thing.

Nell, I think providing examples would be more pompus than just not pointing fingers.

Indeed, it would be extremely rude. I prefer to, as I did, point to a an example of somebody doing things right.

Posted by Waldo Jaquith on 16 November 2006 @ 5pm

Axis of Egos… (Kenton is quite right)

Posted by Spank That Donkey on 16 November 2006 @ 6pm

“A blogger will state his opinion, make no attempt to explain it, and insult those who disagree with them.” — Waldo

When I first read this entry on CvilleBlogs.com, I thought Waldo was criticizing the decline of blogs, and was being hypocritical. So I came here and see that he was being provocative. He actually exemplifies the decline of blogs.

“I’m not sure why I need to be a paragon of virtue. Though I strive to provide, overall, a high level of valuable blog entries, not all will be.” — Waldo

I’m the “sketchy unshaven wild-eyed” guy who dared to disagree with Waldo on global warming and state climatologist controversies and make persuasive counter-arguments. I’m not waiting for an apology ’cause I don’t think Waldo’s sorry for the insult and decline of blogs.

Posted by Blair Hawkins on 16 November 2006 @ 7pm

As with any medium, the folks who were there first are always sour on the upstarts.

But there are lots of relatively new blogs that are just great. (Vivian being the example that most readily springs to mind.) I don’t think there’s anything about newness that correlates with vapidness.

Posted by Waldo Jaquith on 16 November 2006 @ 8pm

“But there are lots of relatively new blogs that are just great.”

Then how much of a decline could there be?

Or the perceived decline is in the quality of some older Virginia blogs.

I’m all for singling out examples of merit.

Decrying some unspecified decline, to the point of making it the post title? Not so much.

Posted by Nell on 16 November 2006 @ 8pm

Then how much of a decline could there be?

Easily — there’s so many of them now. There are lots of new songs that I like, and yet the overwhelming quantity of them are crap. That’s a product of great quantity. 95% of everything is crap.

I’m all for singling out examples of merit.

Decrying some unspecified decline, to the point of making it the post title? Not so much.

Well, I’m all for not being an asshole, so we’ll have to leave it there. Look around. Read some blogs. See any that never produce anything original, foster meaningful discussion, or inform? I’m talking about those.

Posted by Waldo Jaquith on 16 November 2006 @ 9pm

Nell,

I think it would be prudent to study a timeline of the history of virginia’s political blogs. Those that first jumped in either immediately sank, or were read often. Of the latter, they tended to focus more on policy instead of partisanship, and would debate such topics. Examples being Bacon’s Rebellion, One Man’s Trash, Commonwealth Conservative, The Jaded JD, et cetera.

More recently, as both the national trend of blogging has increased, as well as the tools to do so have expanded, the number of Virginia bloggers has effectively exploded. Just look at the Virginia Blog Aggregator, and compare it to what you know of the blogger population just three years prior.

I think what Waldo is driving at here is that Virginia’s political blogosphere has been diluted by a new group of more mainstream political junkies, ones that are more willing to treat their blog as a mouthpiece instead of a forum. There is nothing inherently wrong with this, but for those of us (such as myself) that have time and again been turned to new ideas based off of the arguments of bloggers, I used to have little joy in skimming through the blog aggregator just to find the well-researched articles. Nowadays, I don’t even read it.

I’m not willing to name those that I have distaste for, but I hope this better illuminates what I believe Waldo was trying to say. At the very least, it is what I believe.

Posted by Joe on 16 November 2006 @ 9pm

Small Edit:

Just to keep everyone’s egos in check, “read often” in the first paragraph is still talking about a micro-minority of Virginians.

Posted by Joe on 16 November 2006 @ 9pm

Precisely why I left.

And precisely why I’m coming back.

Posted by Ben Kyber on 16 November 2006 @ 9pm

Waldo,

When camcorders became popular, in the mid- to late-1980s, I remember reading that putting a cheap movie camera in every willing set of hands would spawn a revolution, not unlike the French New Wave. Oh yes, we would see startling new films coming out of the woodwork.

Documentaries, art house films, etc., would tumble back into style, because the new accessibility to filmmaking technology would be available to so many people who would never have had the chance before. And, the same breakthrough would simultaneously develop a more film-savvy audience to appreciate those new movies.

Well, it certainly hasn’t happened. Not yet anyway. If anything, the trend has gone in the opposite direction, as far as the public’s taste in moving pictures goes.

Since then, some of the same sort of predictions have been made about the so-called “citizen journalism” of blogging-made-easy. So far, at least in the political blogosphere, I can’t see how it is doing much to develop a bunch of new top-shelf opinion writers the likes of the late Mike Royko or the ancient William F. Buckley.

So, when copycat bloggers write only about politicians, to demonize or glorify them, and other bloggers, to do essentially the same, I don’t spend much time reading their work. Fortunately, that doesn’t describe all the bloggers, so there are a few I do enjoy reading regularly.

While blogging-made-easy may not be developing any more good writers for this generation than the last generation produced, it is connecting writers who probably wouldn’t have known one another in a new way that has so much potential that it’s fascinating.

Posted by F.T. Rea on 16 November 2006 @ 10pm

Precisely why I left.

And precisely why I’m coming back.

Great news, Ben. :)

Joe & F.T., thank you for your comments — great points, all.

Posted by Waldo Jaquith on 16 November 2006 @ 10pm

I think what Waldo is driving at here is that Virginia’s political blogosphere has been diluted by a new group of more mainstream political junkies, ones that are more willing to treat their blog as a mouthpiece instead of a forum.

The tricky thing about good blogging — and I admit I’m not a good blogger myself — is the time it takes to do it right. I love a cogent argument, regardless on what side of the political aisle it sits, but no matter how much I wish I could make my blog attain the level of discourse that goes on in my brain, I find myself short on time to express all my thoughts well and appropriately. It’s become much easier, unfortunately, to find someone else who has written an article that made me think or feel something, and post its link in hopes others will also see it and find it interesting.

Once upon a time I really wanted to focus my blog on environmental policy, now I hope to merely post something of political interest a couple of times a week so that people don’t think my site is entirely dead. Keeping it alive for the rare time when I do have the opportunity to write something that needs to be expressed.

Posted by TLPatten on 17 November 2006 @ 12pm

“Once upon a time I really wanted to focus my blog on environmental policy, now I hope to merely post something of political interest a couple of times a week so that people don’t think my site is entirely dead.”

Know what you mean TLPatten. One of the best solutions I find (and have yet to use) is to post that the site will be inactive for a set amount of time. For example, with the election over and college finals around the corner, I’m thinking about posting that my blog is going to be down till mid-late December.

“I love a cogent argument, regardless on what side of the political aisle it sits, but no matter how much I wish I could make my blog attain the level of discourse that goes on in my brain, I find myself short on time to express all my thoughts well and appropriately.”

Don’t you just love it when you try to blog with too many things on your plate and drop the ball? I know I do. *twitch… twitch…*

Actually that brings up what I think is the biggest problem with bad blogs. Hit counts. The fact is that most of the time when you write an extensive thought out argument you get a chirp or two from the choir and that’s about it. Say something outlandish and with little support, and boom! The message board’s packed. Like all mediums, sensation sells. It may have the life span of a boy band in some cases, but if the cards are played right, it will last. To me, that’s the problem that leads to all pre-school blogging. Write a bunch of essays and hear little about it. Agitate the oponents base and let the sparks fly!

Posted by Cory Capron on 18 November 2006 @ 11am

Waldo, I agree, it’s dismaying to see the VA blogosphere turn into “red meat for the base” as one commenter called it. But to be fair, that’s how blogs are politically useful. Pursuasion essays and such are morally superior, but the only people they help are the individuals reading, writing, and discussing (silly concept, I know).

But even partisan VA blog-izens can come together to support issues like net neutrality, or to support John Warner for ranking member of the Environment Committee. Any time internet issues, or Virginia issues, put the VA blogosphere at odds with the political establishment, we can and should work together.

That said, I don’t think the future of the blogosphere will be more blogs like yours — written by a person with distinct political views, but not partisan by the nature of the blog — but the more localized the blogging focus, the more we’ll be able to come together and talk like civilized human beings.

Posted by michael on 19 November 2006 @ 9am

[...] I think the only real obstacle to such goals is probably that it’s not easy. But — as you point out — if somebody’s not going to put the effort into writing any thing interesting, I’m certainly not going to go to the trouble of reading it. Waldo Jaquith [...]

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