In the CNN tape, timestamp 0:22-0:23 Stark pretty clearly bumps into man #3 above who says “you’re going to need to leave, now. Get out the door.” In most jurisdictions, man #3 could file charges for battery. He’d be a complete tool for doing so but a common compromise is to insist that the guy committing the battery (Stark in this case) leave, right then, at that moment (0:25 on the YouTube CNN video I linked). The first subsequent contact after the initial battery is a small hand shove back by man #3 at timestamp 0:26 followed very quickly by the much younger man #2 getting Stark away from the balding, pudgy 50+ man #3 before things went tragic. Had Stark not shouted out his question at timestamp 0:31 and ticked off man #3, he wouldn’t have ended up with his face pressed up against the glass wall.

So man #3 is a local and isn’t on the staff and behaved unprofessionally. Man #2 did his best to defuse a situation before it degenerated into an all out brawl and it’s a reasonable construction that he was doing his best to behave professionally and properly and just plain missed a hold. As is noted, he’s a staffer, not a security professional.

What man #1 was doing is just plain unclear.

Things get unstable, wacky out in the field. Partisans on the left are ignoring the plain meaning of the words man #3 said, that he’s not part of the campaign (or, more charitably, they saw the “massaged” NBC video and not the better, more raw CNN one).

Once you wrap your head around the fact that maybe these three guys aren’t exactly working together, the big thuggish conspiracy falls apart and you have a leftie bumping the wrong 50 year old middle manager and people trying to douse the incident before it went very bad.

I still can’t believe this incident was cited by Olberman as evidence of incipient fascism in America.

Were those filthy words an ‘illuminative quote” from one of Webb’s porno works? Will Webb have the guts to apologize for these apparent criminal acts of his agent provocateur

mdcraig,

Contrary to what you and the rest of the right wing thinks, not every Democrat in the Commonwealth is on Webb’s payroll. I myself, lowly volunteer that I am, have never received any money from Mr. Webb. It didn’t stop me from volunteering. If what you say were true, then you would be an employee of Karl Rove or George Allen or Bob McDonnell.

And if you still think that novelists are who they write about, then I hope you get some reasoning help from someone. Mr Webb’s novels are just that, fiction informed by real-life experiences.

God I am getting tired of having to repeat this over and over. I agree with Waldo though, when I say keep spewing this nonsense, it works well for Jim Webb.

Apparent known stalker menacingly charges public servant engaged in campaign of ideas, screaming and knocking into several bystanders. When this ‘trained killer’ refuses to cease his attempted assault, he escalates the physical violence with those justifiably trying to remove him. Finally subdued and shown the door, he mutters ‘punk’.

Dude, I have got to see this video. It sounds like a great one. Where could I find it?

Were those filthy words an ‘illuminative quote” from one of Webb’s porno works?

That is awesome. Please, by all means, keep repeating it.

And the “punk” comment came from your boys, not Stark.

Apparent known stalker menacingly charges public servant engaged in campaign of ideas, screaming and knocking into several bystanders. When this ‘trained killer’ refuses to cease his attempted assault, he escalates the physical violence with those justifiably trying to remove him. Finally subdued and shown the door, he mutters ‘punk’.

I think Kerry was wrong and mean-spirited when he maligned our brave troops, stating that servicemembers don’t “make the most of it” (education), don’t “study hard, …do… homework and …make an effort to be smart”. But these demeaning words would seem to apply to Stark.

Stark’s website gives some clues about his depth of committment to and definition of free speech. There he advises one to “study the terrain carefully before you join the battle”, the final step being the ’showdown”. We see in the video Stark studying the terrain as he careened through innocents in his attempt to assault Allen. This (one-man) mob rule is what goes for intellectual discourse for liberals.

It seems that Stark’s only other claim to fame is waving a poster with lurid words on it in front of a live-television camera during family hour. Another example of liberals’ engagement in the realm of ideas. Were those filthy words an ‘illuminative quote” from one of Webb’s porno works? Will Webb have the guts to apologize for these apparent criminal acts of his agent provocateur

I’m against most things George Allen favors but no candidate should have to put up with being stalked by nut jobs on a mission, be they left or right wing. Mike must not be attending class much at U VA Law or his critical thinking skills would be a bit sharper. If the records of Allen’s divorce are sealed they are by definition not public record.

Not true. I work in a military command staffed by about 50% active duty military, 50% civilian. Many of the civilians (including myself, a “former Naval person”) are retired military, including retired USMC. We have a small active-duty Marine contingent, who this week just sent out invitations to “all Marines and Former Marines” to come participate in the cutting of the cake for the Marine Corps Birthday. The former Marine who occupies the desk next to me affirms he’s a former Marine – particularly since he’s now an Army officer. He seems pretty convinced he’s no longer a Marine, but is verfy proud to call himself a former Marine. One of my colleagues who just retired USMC says he’s also a former Marine. What they all do say that there’s no such thing as is an “ex-Marine.” Small point but important to some of us.

And, the problem with this is…? I think the point of “Roger and Me” was to ask embarrassing questions of big shots. People who are usually so surrounded by accolytes and yes-men, that they never hear such questions. Sure, it’s rude. Sure, it’s boorish. Nope, I wouldn’t want anybody asking me questions like that. But, when you’re playing in the big leagues, you ought to be able to handle these situations with grace.

George Allen failed that test. He, once again, came off looking like a bully (who has his goons to do his dirty work for him). He could have been a better man.

That video starts with some staffers pushing the heckler/questioner out through what I presume to be the ballroom door into the lobby where the assault takes place.

Waldo, I gotta admit; it looks to me like the media is NOT being complete in it’s reporting because it is very clear from the longer video that something physical happened BEFORE the assault in the lobby. At the very least Allen’s staffers/supporters were already pushing Stark out of the ballroom, but there may very well have been an altercation in the ballroom before that.

On the other hand, I find it extremely weird that if this guy was already physical with Allen or his staff, why on earth would they push him out of the ballroom and into the lobby where Senator Allen had already moved? That runs contrary to all protective service practices and common sense. If Allen stepped out of the room, and if Stark was already physical then they should have tried to keep him in the ballroom and away from the senator(s) until police arrived. They did not do that, so my guess is that he’d not been physical and was only very aggressive in his verbal questioning. Aggressive enough to cause them to force him from the room physically?

I was not there; just expressing a view of the video I am seeing that is not already being examined.

Waldo, what you failed to mention about the Hook report is that Dan Allen says that he was “slammed into a door” by Stark at exactly the same place (the ballroom door) as I reported the scuffle.

Hey, Tom? If punches were thrown at that point, why wouldn’t Dan Allen have mentioned it to The Hook? He chooses to only say that he was “slammed into a door,” which differs from your account that Stark threw “a mis-aimed punch into the crowd” “as he went through the door into the hallway.” Is it possible that you are mistaken in what you saw?