I understand where you are coming from, and I wish that you didn’t have to have such a bad experience. I feel like there is a big void between our ideas of what politics can accomplish, and the actuality. Sometimes I reach a point where I can’t stand to be around the . . . well, the politicians!

But I think what you are ran into is simply human nature: it can sometimes be nasty. Hey, but we both obviously stay active so we must be hopeful!

And as Mr. Polticalopinon established,

“I agree Jon-P, there is no shortage of bloviating windbags on the Right, that is for certain”

So, all things being dequal: it can only be true, that if the dynamics would have been reversed, it is just as likely you could have been stabbed in the back by more liberal progressives.

I have certainly seen that happen, here in Charlottesville! More than once.

If only it were a “natural selection” then I might buy your argument. Unfortunately, I ran for office last year and saw things I never expected to see in the supposed “big tent” of the Democratic Party. It has given me a completely different perspective on things – a perspective I honestly admit I wish I didn’t have. There is a lot of truth in “ignorance is bliss.”

I’ve no plans to abandon the state which has been my home for more than 40 years. I will stay here and fight. But I don’t have to like it. And I don’t have to agree with it.

I don’t know what to tell you but that if people put a D in front of their names, that means that you and them share some common ground. You just disagree with how to implement that common ground.

In a two party system, the parties are inevitable going to be huge collations of sometimes conflicting interests . . . any of those parties that start to lose parts of their collations will suffer major defeat at the polls. I don’t have a problem with that, because I believe you can lobby for your interests–by finding the common ground–within the party mechanism.

I am a BIG, BIG believer in compromise, in acknowledging the humanity of the person with whom you disagree, acknowledging that no matter how much you believe in something, there might be a better way to look at it. Find that COMMON ground, and find a solution to the problem.

And you just have to realize that in a conservative state, where there are lots of relatively conservative people, successful politicians (via natural selection) are going to be relatively conservative.

I hope this doesn’t sound wrong,(because I wrestle with this problem as well) but if you absolutely can’t stand that fact, and cant live with it at all, there are other more liberal states . . . I am not saying love it or leave it, I hope you don’t think that, these just seem like the facts on the ground.

And I hope that you don’t leave and don’t stop advocating with in the party, because I believe that there is a valued place for liberals with strong beliefs, the conscience of the party so to speak.

My guess would be that this is a natural base that Senator Clinton can appeal and win the nomination. The combination of name recognition, money and a husband that is still the star of the Democratic party (can you imagine the crowds when he stumps for his wife?). My money is still on Clinton for the nomination.

I don’t think she’s electable nationwide, Mark Warner probably is. Whether the Dem primary voters will wise up, I have no idea

The issue for me is that by becoming R-lite, the Democratic party is leaving some of us, myself included, out. So where do we go?

Jon-P – the article is a good one and one I put on my blog after reading about it on RK. It is good food for thought, no doubt.

Though there was some guy on Talk of The Nation, last month, saying a very similar thing: essentially we should force high level talks on the Iranians, make them behave like adults wether they like it or not.

And the bumper sticker guy: Well I didn’t like that one bit, I mean I guess I thought it was a little funny, but I knew where things where going after that. Anyway, besides different politics, he turned out to be a decent enough guy.

I wince a little bit every time some says Dems are becoming R-lite. I certainly understand and empathize with your desire to see our party take strong stands for our values. But we also have to stick to the big tent and realize that these more moderate or even conservative Dems, have chosen to to be Democrats for a reason (If they wanted to Republican-lite, well they could have simple been, Republican-lite)

Anyway they chose Dem to represent certain values, and we share that, and we should focus on that!

Speaking of bridging the gap, I strongly recommend everyone go to this article (I have been trying to push on every blog I comment on). I have been chewing on this all week. It is very pertinent to this discussion and can really make us take a fresh look at some our assumptions

Remapping the Culture Debate
by Garance Franke-Ruta

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?name=View+Author&section=root&id=820

Additionally with regards to Hillary, she pretty much represents the stereotype of the “out of touch with the people / no message” democratic party (true or not).

I’m less bothered by her position as an Iraq Hawk. I fall into the you break it you bought it philosophy on that issue. Wasn’t happy about the war when it started but we’re there now. The Dems that angered me with that issue were the ones that didn’t take a public position against the war at the get go because they were *afraid* of being branded as unpatriotic.. and then later tried to do the “we were misled” bullsh1t.

Vivian Paige wrote:

The Democratic party is quickly becoming R-lite and that’s not where I want to be.

When I was growing up that pretty much was the definition of Virginia democrat. Anyone remember the saying, “In Virginia the Democrats are Republicans, and the Republicans are Birchers?” Compared to what passes for liberal in most other states Virginia Dems nationally have always looked more like moderates.

And now that I’ve rambled for too long, I’ll wind this up by saying.. what I think is most important about Warner is of all the names being tossed around in my opinion he seems the most able to bridge the gap, and his positions don’t seem to far to any extreme (on either end of the political spectrum). And that’s a refreshing change, not to mention if you think the religous right is bad now.. wait until they have another 8 years with a republican president. It’s time for another Democrat in the White house.

Have to agree with Shayna here: “Demanding purity is bad, but so is demanding nothing.” The Democratic party is quickly becoming R-lite and that’s not where I want to be. We cannot continue to move farther and farther to the right, leaving behind the ideals of the left, most notably civil rights.

But now imagine Warner: how the hell would he even formulate a position on Iran? My guess: He’d just parrot what Bayh and Biden say. I freely admit I’m not a moderate. Bumper stickers like the one J-P mentions turn my stomach, and not because I’m “from up north” (my people go back 270 years in Rockbridge County). So if we need that guy’s vote, and we probably do, I’m not going to be your guide to getting it.

And if the NYT piece is correct, have the least amount of DC insiders, because they will all be working for Clinton.

And if he is able to pull of the nomination, his organization well be even more battle hardened and well oiled; and less in need of outside support.