Zogby polling on Miller, Webb.

1. Waldo,

   Just curious — did they just give you the names in the poll, or was it a “bio poll,” where they give you a little thumbnail info about each person.

   Both Webb and Miller have

2. …limited name recognition at this point.

   (Not sure why it dropped the end of the comment.)

3. The poll doesn’t really do much to show preference. It asks who you would support in an Allen-Webb race and who you would support in an Allen-Miller race.

   I wished it asked for a preference as between the two.

4. I have yet to hear a single person say that they’d rather have Miller than Webb. Is there anyone who doesn’t want Webb?

   Goddamnit, I want Webb.

   Webb, Webb, Webb.

   Webb.

5. I was speaking to Dr. Holsworth from VCU about this very topic, and he called Harris a longshot. In regards to Webb, he said that he represents the “unique democrat” (Anti-war soldier, for those unawares) that may have just the right quirks to give Allen a run for his money. The biggest failing with Webb is simply that he doesn’t have the recognition in-party, and will probably not fight for the attention.

   He also told a joke about when Kilgore was asked during the race what his favorite recent book was. He said it was Webb’s book (the title eludes me).

6. I wished it asked for a preference as between the two.

   While I don’t know exactly who commissioned this poll, we can be sure that, whoever it is, doesn’t care whether anybody prefers James Webb or Harris Miller.

   What they’re looking for is the differential between those who, for example, would vote for Allen when paired with Miller, but would vote for Webb when he’s paired for Allen. In short, how many Republican voters would move from Allen to Webb, or how many Democratic voters would move from Miller to Allen.

   So, if you’re participating in one of these polls and want to, for example, express a preference for Webb over Miller, the way to do it is to say you’d vote for Webb when paired with Allen, but would vote for Allen when paired with Miller. (That’s exactly what I did, even though I know I’d vote for a yellow dog, rather than George Allen.)

7. I continue to be amazed at how ready folks are to jump on the Webb bandwagon. So, never mind the “Democrat” label, we’ll have two Republicans running. I am personally glad for Webb’s position regarding Iraq. And some of his statements about foreign policy are thoughful. But I think his view of the supposed dichotomy during the VietNam era (college students vs. the military) was way too simplistic, and outright wrong (see his webiste for his reflections). I’ve written about this elsewhere. Most college students were not against those who served. But the minority who actually demonstrated are being cast as reflective of the rest of the country. Many of us who came to oppose the war over time had family and friends serving and it is unthinkable for most that their loved ones would be treated with disrespect.

   There are numerous issues about which we have heard nothing from Webb. What about civil liberties? Verified (auditable) paper trail? Health insurance? Social Security? Education? More tax cuts? Run-away violations of Constitutional liberties? And lots of others… Why are so many people so desperate as to grasp at straws (or Webbs) when we should be selecting a Democrat. I am not excited about Miller’s candidacy. I hope someone else emerges. But Webb? Must we give up all hope of selecting even a moderate Democrat?

8. Zogby also tested Don Beyer against Allen last year, even, I believe, after he was pretty obviously not running. And Rasmussen tested a bunch of candidates too.

9. Greg, in case your question hasn’t been answered adequately, no bio was provided on the Miller or Webb, at least that I noticed.

10. The three of us who iniitiated DraftJamesWebb met with James Webb. We’re activist Dems. We think he was a national security Republican. He’s an independent guy who has had problems with both parties. I think he is disillusioned with the Republican Party on a lot of issues. Hopefully, he’ll announce and people will get their questions answered soon.

    Given his thoughtful stands on current foreign policy issues, I am not going to hold our differences on Vietnam against him. That is water under the bridge. I want a candidate who can defeat George Allen. I also agree with those who want candidates to adhere to basic Democratic values. At the same time, I can understand people having disagreements some traditional Democratic Party positions. We are a big tent.

    I want to add that when we met with Mr. Webb, we asked him a lot of questions. I think he’s an intelligent , open-minded person who will appeal to a lot of Virginians.

11. BTW is anyone watching the election results tonight? Looks like we have a winner (90% reporting).

12. My point above is not about the relevance of VietNam ear analyses, but rather a bit of simplistic and polarized thinking, which I hope doesn’t pervade current thinking. Mostly I asked questions? I think we have a right to a lot more info than is being provided at present. Dems are being asked to “draft Webb” with insufficient info on the issues that matter most to Democrats. Where’s the beef?

13. Kathy,

    Webb was wearing the uniform during that war. He’s in a better position to say how he and his brothers in arms were treated by the student left at that time than you or I am.

    I understand that you want someone with a longer track record on the issues you hold dear. There is no such person willing to run who would have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning. There are exactly 2 people who have publicly expressed an interest in running. Harris Miller and James Webb. Webb can win, Miller can’t. Webb and I probably wouldn’t agree on everything but we don’t have to. He’s an independent-minded guy with an impeccable record of following his conscience and fighting for American interests. That is pretty damn good as politicians go. He’s a guy who, if we retake the Senate and allow it to become just as corrupt as the GOP did, will continue to fight to reform that rather than just toe the party line. I want him to be our party’s equivilant of John McCain. A guy who isn’t afraid to stray off the reservation if the party is wrong about something.

    We need a reformer who will also be an advocate for Naval interests in Virginia. That’s James Webb.

14. Lee,

    What do you think is keeping Webb out right now? What’s it going to take to get him in?

15. Actually, if some haven’t gotten this point by now (and the point dates me), I was there. I was a college student then and none of the college students I knew were active in politics. I knew numerous students from different colleges. I read. I watched the television coverage. I know where and when many protests occurred. Even at campuses where there were incidents, they weren’t typical of day-to-day living there, but have been portrayed that way ever since. And the mere fact that students protested the war does NOT (sorry for shouting, but the emphasis is needed) mean they mistreated people like Webb. A small minority of people were disrespectful. On the other hand, most who came to oppose the war had brothers, sisters, friends who did serve and we loved and supported them. We stood on the pier awaiting their return from the Gulf of Tonkin on destroyers, air craft carriers, or their arrival home from other branches of the service. We lost friends in the war. And never, ever would have disrespected them. It’s offensive to me to hear the re-write of history so pervasive in the media.

    Additionally, we were too busy studying and simultaneously working (real) jobs to pay for college. Some of us had children. We had no time for campus uprisings because we had lives to run. Many of us learned to take issue with a president from our own party (Johnson, who lied to (Why don’t Repugs do this? Where is their credibility?) But instead of protesting we went door-to-door and built up the grass-roots. Because Webb may have observed disprespect doesn’t make it the norm. Protest happend. It may well have changed history. But it was the administration which was protested, not the ranks of men and women who served. You may ask, why this matters now. And this is why it matters: Perpetuating the myth that it was the soldiers against the rest of the country is a harmful even now. It plays itself out even today: “you’re with us or against us.” Just yesterday Bush went at it again trying to incriminate anyone who criticizes the war as giving “comfort to our adversaries.” There should be no place for this kind of polarized thinking because it’s detrimental. I hope Webb doess’t continue with this kind of dividing.

    I am proud of Webb’s courageous stance on Iraq. But that’s not enough. I have read thoughtful articles on his website. But still he hasn’t made the case for why we should draft him. And those who’ve heard him haven’t made the case either. So, I am really pleading for someone to make the case. Otherwise, how do we know he really is a Democrat. I know you say there’s room for all under the big tent. But, the hope is not for pretenders. Working our tails off for someone who doesn’t agree with us most of the time isn’t an option. So were’s the substance upon which we can agree?

16. As someone who’s met Harris Miller once at an event, I’ve got to agree with KathyinBlacksburg. Why do Democrats insist on repeating the same mistakes over and over? This feels exactly the same as when everyone was chanting “war hero, war hero” at the beginning of 2004.

    As one of the minority of Virginia voters who voted against Kerry in the primary, I’m very wary of the bandwagon mentality — that’s what got us Kerry as a nominee, and that’s exactly what’s happening here. We don’t know much about Webb, except for that 1) he used to be a Republican, and 2) it’s about 10 months until the election, and he hasn’t decided whether or not he wants to run. All this when George Allen has virtually unlimited money at his disposal.

    Harris Miller’s a smart guy, and a good candidate who wants to run a tough campaign. In the limited time I had talking with him, I was really impressed by how tough he was willing to be with George Allen. Let’s face it, Allen is a rough, nasty guy, and we’re going to need someone who’s willing to take the fight to him. Harris Miller’s willing to — and he’s a smart, business-minded guy like Mark Warner.

    Are we really so blinded by Webb’s pedigree that we’re willing to make the same mistakes all over again, and abandon a good candidate?

17. I’m wary of Monday morning quarterbacks (particularly Democrats) who want to disparage John Kerry. If there was ever an individual who was responsible for bringing together Vietnam veterans and anti-war activists to work for shared American values, that person is John Kerry. I was there, working for John Kerry’s campaign for Congress in 1972 and I saw long-hairs and vets working together. Nobody else in America brought those groups together. You don’t have to throw stones at Senator Kerry in order to promote the candidacy of Harris Miller. It’s unbecoming.

    As for Harris Miller being a “good candidate”, I’ll accept that he’ll “take the fight to” George Allen. If he’s the nominee, I’ll vote for him. But, he’ll lose. You know it and I know it. And I won’t waste my time, energy or money on a loser.

18. In 2004, I campaigned for another Democrat and voted for another Democrat specifically because I thought John Kerry would be a disaster — I’m not a “Monday morning quarterback.” He won the primary because Democrats were agog with the idea of running a war hero, and turned a blind eye to all of the characteristics that would doom him as a candidate later on.

    All I’m saying is that if Webb hasn’t made up his mind by now, he sure isn’t showing the level of enthusiasm that would make him a winner either. And the latest poll shows him down 31 points to George Allen — and that’s before we had Democrats voting for Allen to sabotage poll numbers. Give Miller a chance, meet him, look at his website, listen to his story — none of which you seem willing to do at this point. That’s all I’m saying.

19. Note that I am not throwing stones at Kerry. He would have been far, far superior to the current resident of the White House. In fact, I offered few post-mortem reflections after the election last year. I didn’t support him in the primary, but I worked hard to support him later. As my post made clear, his grasp of the issues and his presentation of them on his website was awesome. But he didn’t effectively communicate enough of that to voters. He let Bush strategists define him. Had he done that himself, early enough, he certainly would have won. But he was badly served and, to be sure, made some mistakes of his own. We can’t afford not to learn from them. And if we don’t learn from them, shame on us. Kerry deserved to win. We can only move on and do what we can to do better next time. That means all Democrats,, including John Kerry. But it’s painful to see some of the same thought processes at work once again.

20. Here’s my beef: I have the sense the Harris Miller is somebody being foisted on grassroots Democrats by power-brokers. I don’t like that and I won’t line up behind this guy just because the suits tell me to.

    I want to see a contested primary. Nobody, not Miller, not Webb, is entitled to a coronation by Virginia Democrats. I believe in small d democracy. If either one of them doesn’t want to fight for the nomination, they don’t deserve it.

    Let’s see them (and anybody else who’s got the gumption to test themselves in the public arena) get out and meet the voters and test their ideas and character. If Miller beats another Democrat in the primary, maybe I’ll learn something about him that makes me more enthusiastic. But, no free passes, please. If anybody’s deal is that they want an uncontested nomination in order to run, then we’re better off without them. No guts, no glory.

21. Duke: You made my point beter than I could. I think it’s the implication that it’s all being decided before a primary even happens and that minimal information about their positions on issues have been forthcoming. There should be no free passes–for anyone at any level. No one should be assumed to warrant a coronation in lieu of an election.

    That’s assuming it’s not back to the old fix-is-in caucus system. It’s difficult for a primary system to overcome the same bias, though. Look at how the 2008 “favorite son” is already assumed to be a done deal. It’s “over” before folks know what hit them. I am not criticizng the “favorite son,” so don’t pile on me for this. I am questioning the pretty outrageous assumption that the nine or so other Democratic candidates who think they’ll run in 08 need not apply in Virginia.

    Primaries can be awful experiences, but as bruising as the 2004 one was, I think they are the best option. And if voters and issues get cut out of a “Democratic” Party process, we shoot ourselves in the foot. What is the name of our party again?

22. Since Harris Miller is the head of ITAA, why don’t we ask him an important IT-related question. Like, say, what the f*ck is up with UCITA, and what did he have to do with getting Virginia to jump head-first into that mess while other states sat it out long enough to realize that law is a piece of crap. (Yes, I know it’s a state law, but the federal government can do equally icky things.)

    I have now been made aware of at least one business model, only tangentially related to IT, that depends on UCITA, and it is an icky one. The main use of UCITA, so far, is to get people to sign contracts they otherwise would not consider if they were given a clipboard and pen. I will discuss this issue further if I run into you at Neon Guild.

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